Horst Wessel funeral.

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Max Williams
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Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 16 May 2012 17:00

Rare photo of the funeral of Horst Wessel. Note the rioters fighting in the background and the NSDAP flag draped over the coffin.
Max.
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J. Duncan
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by J. Duncan » 16 May 2012 20:02

Max
That is actually a still photo from the film "Hans Westmar"...check my link below and go to 1:26:35...you will see the exact same scene with the armored car and the lone man on right fighting the policeman, only it will be closer up than photo above. You have to watch very carefully and pause it. Maybe someone who knows how can freeze it for us and paste so we can compare images?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs3mXTkJBPU

Max Williams
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 16 May 2012 23:15

This photo is a contemporary newspaper photo which is captioned "Horst Wessel funeral." It also appeared in a Third Reich Polizei magazine, the name of which escapes me.
Max.

J. Duncan
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by J. Duncan » 16 May 2012 23:23

That does not mean it is a photo from the actual event of 1930...the periodical simply used a still from the film and called it "Horst Wessel Funeral"...look at the linked film and you will see what I am talking about. No question in my mind that it's from the Hans Westmar film. Other sources have used the same photo, calling it from the Hans Westmar film (links below). Photo does not seem to be that "rare" either...I found the same photo on the first page of a google search after typing under google images "Hans Westmar":

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hytam/2458207991/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COFFIN-HANS-WES ... 0393860261

billy2961
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by billy2961 » 17 May 2012 07:17

I also think this photo from the film "Hans Westmar - Einer von vielen",there are three pictures about this funeral from this film and you can reference them.
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Max Williams
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 17 May 2012 07:22

J. Duncan wrote:That does not mean it is a photo from the actual event of 1930...the periodical simply used a still from the film and called it "Horst Wessel Funeral"...look at the linked film and you will see what I am talking about. No question in my mind that it's from the Hans Westmar film. Other sources have used the same photo, calling it from the Hans Westmar film (links below). Photo does not seem to be that "rare" either...I found the same photo on the first page of a google search after typing under google images "Hans Westmar":

You misunderstand. If it were a photo of the Wessel funeral, it would be rare. How many photos of the funeral have you seen?
I only have the cut out picture from the newspaper clipping stating "Horst Wessel funeral." This image also appears among a montage of Polizei photos in a 1930s magazine article about the German Third Reich Polizei. Why would a film clip be included in that I wonder?
And why is the film clip in close-up when the image is taken from distance? There's probably a simple explanation.
I have absolutely no interest in cinematography from the 1930s and therefore have never heard of Hans Westmar, let alone seen the film. I just came across this newspaper/magazine image and thought others might like to see it.

J. Duncan
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by J. Duncan » 17 May 2012 08:10

Thanks Billy2961 for posting the stills from the film. 1:26:35 is the same as Max's posted photo (you have to have a quick trigger finger to capture it). Nevertheless, the images you posted show that the photo is from the film...the creases of the horses' capes in their hind-quarters are identical as is the position of the hatted /caped men holding the reigns in still photo #2.

Max, I have NEVER seen a funeral photo from the actual event of March 1930. Rare indeed. Almost all the images I've seen of the funeral of the famous stormtrooper are misrepresentions lifted from the Hans Westmar film, which is why I challenged your photo.

There are often photographers on film sets and sometimes film is produced from different angles which are then later edited out. This would explain why the film is close-up and your photo is set further back. What I think this shows is that the NS periodicals made the same mistakes and misrepresentations that often occur in the history books today. For instance, I've seen photos of the Maikowski funeral also misrepresented as being that of Horst Wessel's.

I do not think I misunderstood anything based upon the first post: "Rare photo of the funeral of Horst Wessel. Note the rioters fighting in the background and the NSDAP flag draped over the coffin". There was no mention of where that photo came from at the beginning of the thread. If the image were not challenged, many would have simply said "interesting" and moved on..believing they had seen a photo of the actual event. It is not an authentic image. A. The photo is not from the funeral of Horst Wessel B. It therefore follows that the image is not rare because there are plenty of still photos available from the Hans Westmar film. Max, you more than anybody have taught me about the misuse and misrepresentation of photos in many publications and posts here on the forum. Like yourself, I value authenticity.

It doesn't help either that the original title of Hans Westmar was "Horst Wessel" (Goebbels had it changed).

Max Williams
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 17 May 2012 09:36

If Third Reich periodicals got it wrong then small wonder people of today get it wrong. Somehow though I get the impression that your robust posts are more about proving me wrong by "challenging" my innocent mistake than discussing the pros and cons and simply pointing out I had it wrong. Your use of the word "challenge" and your highlight of my use of "rare" tend to confirm my feeling. I innocently posted an image in the belief it was as stated; I was mistaken. It has taught me something however....I'll think twice before posting any more photos here.

Halfdan S.
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Halfdan S. » 17 May 2012 10:25

I've got this pic (supposed to be) from the funeral - a google search also gave me this frontpage of a book, though I haven't had a look at the book myself.

Best
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Max Williams
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 17 May 2012 11:44

Thanks for posting those Halfdan. I have not seen those images before, but I think they are rare shots from the actual funeral, even though one is used as a book cover illustration. :P I think they confirm that the image I posted was not from the actual funeral as your images show a slightly different hearse.
Many thanks,
Max.

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Wessel
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Wessel » 17 May 2012 14:41

These two photos are from the period (1932) book, 'Horst Wessel, Leben und Sterben'.
The hearse looks exactly similar to the one in the previous post.
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jeffhan373
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by jeffhan373 » 17 May 2012 14:51

Not surprisingly, the Illustrierter Beobachter provided heavy photographic coverage of Horst Wessel's funeral in issues of the time. The hearse shown is identical to the images posted by Halfdan and Wessel, and the dramatic photo posted by Max does not appear. One image of the hearse is captioned: The hearse must be protected by Schupos against "Rowdys". I agree with JD - it's from the film "Hans Westmar".

Max Williams
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by Max Williams » 17 May 2012 15:35

I think we've already established that. The major differences with the hearses are the large crucifixes at front and rear of the actual carriage. However, it's good to see some photos of the Wessel funeral, even though they appear in books. They are new to me and I suspect, many others. Apart from illustrations in books, it does appear that photos of Wessel's funeral are rare.
Max.

billy2961
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by billy2961 » 17 May 2012 19:34

Max, Look at Halfdan 's picture and Wessel 's picture ,in their pictures the carriage have two crosses on it but in our pictures there are not. so I agree with JD - your picture from the film.

J. Duncan
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Re: Horst Wessel funeral.

Post by J. Duncan » 17 May 2012 21:41

Good find on the original photos.
Max - If one is going to say you are wrong (which seldom happens), he had better prove it. I did not think you would accept it otherwise. A presumption perhaps. No malice intended. I think I did say the image was not correct in post number 2 above, but it didn't seem you were listening (see post number 3), hence the further proof / argumentation. Hope this explains things. Sorry about the misinterpretation. My motive was sincere. I actually paid you a compliment, that you more than anybody taught me the importance of authenticity in what gets posted here.

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