Horst Wessel funeral.

[Max Williams]

Max, Look at Halfdan 's picture and Wessel 's picture ,in their pictures the carriage have two crosses on it but in our pictures there are not. so I agree with JD - your picture from the film.

Read the post above yours.

[Max Williams]

Good find on the original photos.
Max - If one is going to say you are wrong (which seldom happens), he had better prove it. I did not think you would accept it otherwise. A presumption perhaps. No malice intended. I think I did say the image was not correct in post number 2 above, but it didn't seem you were listening (see post number 3), hence the further proof / argumentation. Hope this explains things. Sorry about the misinterpretation. My motive was sincere. I actually paid you a compliment, that you more than anybody taught me the importance of authenticity in what gets posted here.

JD,
In post 3, I did not say I didn't agree with you. I just quoted the source of the photo I used and another place I had seen it. Not having seen this film, they were my only sources. I also subsequently asked some questions as I was puzzled why this shot appeared not once, but twice in contemporary publications as the funeral and why the cameras were positioned differently.

For the benefit of all concerned who think there is still some doubt......I AGREE WITH JD. I have also previously pointed out the different hearses used. Please read the posts.
Regards,
Max.

[ihoyos]

Part of this video is the real funeral
http://songsofwar.info/wessel/Funeral%20horst.html

[ihoyos]

Part of this video is the real funeral
http://songsofwar.info/wessel/Funeral%20horst.html

[ihoyos]

Check Index : Funeral scrolldown to video
the first 17 seconds are real footage from 1930
Goebels speech is from 1933
very clear details about real hearses. even the the cloth of the horses is different. white edges in white, all black cloths in movie from 1933

[J. Duncan]

Interesting. I believe the Goebbels speech has to do with the Maikowski funeral, which took place after the nazis came to power. The Maikowski funeral has also been confused with the Wessel funeral. I would like to see some photos of the Maikowski funeral cortegie to compare. In the Erwin Leiser film "Mein Kampf", there is the same speech by Goebbels with the funeral cortegie. I will have to find the appropriate link so we can view it but it looks like ihoyo's linked video was lifted from that documentary.
Wessel became legendary in the Third Reich and there was a whole mythology concerning him. One of the photographs from ihoyo's link shows officials in the flat that Wessel lived in (later made into a kind of shrine / museum - notice the bust in the background). Maikowski's situation was different (wasn't he shot by one of his own men?), but he was also a stormtroop leader who battled in the streets. Goebbels gave such men much attention and recognition. They became martyrs. A good book on the subject of this creation of martyrs and mythology is Baird's "To Die For Germany: Heroes in the Nazi Pantheon".

[J. Duncan]

I found the film clip from "Mein Kampf" from youtube. Section starts at 24:38 of the documentary. Please look very carefully at the carriage, the horses with their capes, and the men leading the horses. It has the same crosses and crown as the other photos...both films from 1933, as Hitler and other officials are marching towards the carriage....it's the Maikowski funeral cortegie in the film footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCF2QrZO ... re=related

[ihoyos]

The book Horst Wessel : Leben und Sterben, first edition was 1932, and content photos of the carriage with crosses, as well photos SA men placing the coffin in to the carriage.
Maikowski funeral was in 1933, and policemen place the coffin in to the carriage, very similar, may be the same carriage. but the book was already imprinted.

[J. Duncan]

Yes. I went back and saw the "leben" book photos and see what you mean. In the Wessel images, it's SA men placing the coffin in the carriage. Maybe it's the funeral carriage (perhaps used on both occasions as you suggest) that throws researchers off? I notice too that the capes on the horses in the Wessel photos have a white trim border but the carriage is the same. Interesting. Ihoyos, good eye noticing these variations.

[J. Duncan]

Rewatched the film footage from "MK" link and noticed that it is a mixture of the two funerals. I discovered if you look carefully, in the first section of the film, the horses have straight black capes, flanked by policemen and then it cuts to a part where the capes have the white trim as in the photos from the book of 1932, flanked by SA! No wonder there is so much confusion about these pictures! I wonder also if Maikowski and Wessel were buried in the same cemetary?
It's that darn carriage that has created much of the trouble.
The Nazis themselves didn't help in this matter, as they were the ones that mixed the footage. One would have to wonder why on earth would they have done so, considering they were making a film of Maikowski's funeral after they had come to power and had plenty of film material on hand...then to mix into it original film footage of the Wessel funeral? A mistake? They would have had to dig into their archives to get at the Wessel footage and would have known the difference. Strange. Leiser's "MK" footage came direct from a Goebbels film titled "Deutschland Erwacht (see link below). The film is very poor quaility but there is a lot more footage of the Maikowski funeral cortegie, even showing Maikowski's dead body during his wake, but the mixture of the two funeral films is present. Maikowski starts at 6:38 of the film.

http://reichsarchiv.com/Filme/01_Bis_19 ... rwacht.php

[ihoyos]

Maikowski was buried in Invalidenfriedhof, not far from the grave of the Red Baron. The same cemetery where Heydrich, Udet, Mölders were buried.

[Wessel]

Wessel was buried in the St. Nicolaikirche, Berlin where his father had been the pastor from 1913 until his death in 1922.

[ihoyos]

OK folks. after some deep research and thanks to the video posted by Duncan
http://reichsarchiv.com/Filme/01_Bis_19 ... rwacht.php
I have to said that all we somehow are wrong including mine. lets see the facts.
- All photos ( 4 or 5 ) published as Horst Wessel funeral , by newspapers, magazines and books before January 1933 are real. That is obvoius. NO Hans Westmar film, or Maikowski assasination yet. But the film I said as real , see my post, is not.
I ask my self: Why? policemen carry the coffin of Maikowski, from the Church ( Protestant Berlin Dome ), to the hearses ?
Why police men walk solemny side by side the hearses, according the films??
Because that was not Maikowski hearses, that was Zauritz hearses, police who was killed with Maikowski . both were honored in the mass funeral in the church.
If you see the film at 8:12 his coffin is placed in the carriage by policemen.
at 8:49 the carriage leaves the front of the church, and a big column of SA star to come down from the stairs with standarts.
at 9.06 other hearses show start to run toward the church, and this hearses match with the alleged HW hearses in several films. very clear the white line on the cloth of the horses. this is the Maikowski hearses.
at 10:12 we see again the Zauritz hearses with policeman at both sides marching solemny for the fallen camerade. No nazi flag over the coffin, and then at 10.28 Maikowski hearses flanked for SA men. very clear the flag with svastic over the coffin.
Finally no conffusion about the Horst Wessel and Maikowsky hearses. Hosrt Wessel 2 horses. Maikowsky 4 horses.
Now I have no doubts, againsts, my own feelings. No film about Horst Wessel funeral sufaced yet.

[J. Duncan]

Very good analysis Ihoyos! Like yourself, I watched the film clip many times looking for clues but you found the answers. This explains everything perfectly about the Maikowski event and clears up any confusion about a mixture of film material between Wessel's and Maikowski's funerals. That had me scratching my head. Thanks for discovering the facts about this.

[Helly Angel]

Ihoyos is CSI!!!!!