Hitler's lost documents

Discussions on all aspects of the NSDAP, the other party organizations and the government. Hosted by Michael Miller & Igor Karpov.
Post Reply
User avatar
Anas sawallha
Member
Posts: 699
Joined: 08 Nov 2008, 11:06
Location: Irbid, Jordan

Hitler's lost documents

#1

Post by Anas sawallha » 07 Jul 2015, 18:05

hi
in the book " The fall of Berlin " by Anthony Read & David Fisher , they mentioned an incident in which an aircraft carrying Hitler's Documents crashed among other 9 aircraft flew from Berlin to Munich, and the chest of documents disappeared and this chest of documents has become " one of the abiding legends of the Third Reich " quoted.
please if anyone knows about this incident can provide some informations .

Thanks

User avatar
Patches
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 03:13
Location: United States

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#2

Post by Patches » 10 Jul 2015, 01:47

Anas sawallha wrote:hi
in the book " The fall of Berlin " by Anthony Read & David Fisher , they mentioned an incident in which an aircraft carrying Hitler's Documents crashed among other 9 aircraft flew from Berlin to Munich, and the chest of documents disappeared and this chest of documents has become " one of the abiding legends of the Third Reich " quoted.
please if anyone knows about this incident can provide some informations .

Thanks
I believe what you are referring to here is what was called "Operation Seraglio." Going from memory on what I have read about it, this was a flight of aircraft that left Berlin very late in the war during several days, I think over 20 - 23 April 1945. The purpose of the operation was to evacuate key personnel and sensitive documents by air out of Berlin and was ordered by Martin Bormann. Among the personnel flown out were Christa Schroeder & Johanna Wolf (2 of Hitler's secretaries) and Albert Bormann, Martin Bormann's brother. The destinations were Munich and Salzberg. All of the aircraft arrived at their destinations safely, all except one; the last one to leave.

The last aircraft to leave Berlin as part of this operation, a Ju 352, had developed engine trouble which delayed its departure. It was repaired and flew alone out of Berlin, only to crash near Börnersdorf, not far from the Czech border. I do not know if it was ever established whether the plane was shot down or crashed due to mechanical difficulty. All of the crew and passengers were killed in the crash, except for two badly injured survivors (pulled from the wreckage by villagers) that died a short time after the crash.

It was on this crashed aircraft that crates of sensitive documents had been loaded onto. The crash caused an explosion and fire and while the majority of the crates reportedly burned, some of them were salvaged by villagers and hidden away. It is at this point that the story goes off in multiple directions regarding the fate of the documents.

Interviewed many years after the war, one of the Börnersdorf villagers said that they had notified the authorities after the crash and reported salvaging several crates of documents that were marked as being very important. A few hours later some troops arrived asking for the crates and they were given to the troops and taken away by them, never to be seen again.

Another story goes that some of the crates and documents were kept hidden away by villagers and not given to any troops, their fate unknown.

And yet another story goes that the crates were located by German communist authorities (Börnersdorf was in the Soviet occupation zone that later became East Germany) and hidden again by them; yet another story is that the documents were smuggled out and sold piecemeal to collectors to raise cash for corrupt East German authorities that were in possession of them, and it is this last story that came to involve the so-called "Hitler Diaries" hoax of the 1980's.

Konrad Kujau, the "Master Forger" and faker of the Hitler Diaries, used the story of Operation Seraglio and the crashed JU-352 to explain how he had come in to possession of the diaries. Kujau's story is that the diaries (and other documents he had forged) were in the possession of an East German Army general and he, Kujau, was the middleman in smuggling them out of the DDR and selling them to a Stern magazine journalist for 9.3 million marks. Stern sold the rights to publish the diaries, which had been authenticated by some historians as genuine, until a laboratory chemical analysis proved that the diaries were fakes. It was quite an international sensation at the time! More about Operation Seraglio and the Hitler Diaries is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries

The crew and passengers of the crashed Ju 352 are buried in a cemetery at Börnersdorf. And when Hans Baur, Hitler's personal pilot whom had flown one of the aircraft out of Berlin later told Hitler of the crash, Hitler is reported to have replied that he was upset at the loss of one of his favored servants (killed in the crash) adding, "I entrusted him with extremely valuable documents which would show posterity the truth of my actions!" (Per Wiki and other sources). Meanwhile, the true fate of the missing documents remains unknown.

EDIT: The Wiki page linked to above says some survivors of the crash lived long after it, more conflicting information...


PF
Member
Posts: 2123
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 14:19
Location: USA

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#3

Post by PF » 11 Jul 2015, 19:16


User avatar
Anas sawallha
Member
Posts: 699
Joined: 08 Nov 2008, 11:06
Location: Irbid, Jordan

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#4

Post by Anas sawallha » 17 Jul 2015, 14:30

Thanks a lot

Preesall Research
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 15:21
Location: UK

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#5

Post by Preesall Research » 26 Jun 2019, 15:28

The Hitler Diary Plane crash on 21 April 1945 is going to be debated and debated for many years to come.
I would be very grateful if someone could tell me the precise location of the plane crash site. Todate we have been informed it is near the small village of Bornersdorf near the Czech border with Germany.
Is the crash site East or West of the village (North South main road?) If so what is the compass direction from say the village church and the approximate distance?

Sid Guttridge
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#6

Post by Sid Guttridge » 27 Jun 2019, 15:00

Do we have any sort of manifest for what documentation, if any, was aboard, or is this just an unsubstantiated story?
Presumably all the aircraft that did arrive were unloaded. Do we know what they carried?
Cheers,
Sid.

Halfdan S.
Member
Posts: 2699
Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 03:02
Location: Copenhagen

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#7

Post by Halfdan S. » 27 Jun 2019, 22:42

Preesall Research wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 15:28
I would be very grateful if someone could tell me the precise location of the plane crash site. Todate we have been informed it is near the small village of Bornersdorf near the Czech border with Germany.
Is the crash site East or West of the village (North South main road?) If so what is the compass direction from say the village church and the approximate distance?
Interesting question - I've seen a photo of the wreck at the crash site printed somewhere (probably in Spiegel), and somehow I believe to remember that the crew were buried on the crash site aswell. I checked Volksbund but the Grave of Gundlfinger isn't registered.

Best
Halfdan S.

User avatar
Natter
Member
Posts: 1297
Joined: 19 Feb 2007, 22:43
Location: Bergen, Norway

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#8

Post by Natter » 28 Jun 2019, 02:15

Halfdan S. wrote:I've seen a photo of the wreck at the crash site printed somewhere (probably in Spiegel)
https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-j ... f-8-killed

Preesall Research
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 15:21
Location: UK

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#9

Post by Preesall Research » 29 Jun 2019, 15:39

The date of the crash was 21:04:45

Another strange plane crash happened on 1:01:71 in Preesall, UK. 2 Persons were killed. The curious point is that if you subtract one of the dates from the other you get 20:02:74. The birthdate of BBC Radio 1 DJ Chris Moyles.

The curiosity is compounded when Lancashire Police have confirmed that in the summer of 74 escaped Nazi war criminal Martin Bormann was present in the village of Preesall.

What better diary is there than creating one through the lives of others?

Preesall Research
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 26 Jun 2019, 15:21
Location: UK

Re: Hitler's lost documents

#10

Post by Preesall Research » 30 Jun 2019, 11:38

The sombre aspect of the New Years Day 71' plane crash in Preesall was that it occured in the line of sight between a house on Park Lane and Blackpool Tower in a South Westerly direction from Park Lane.

KG 200 was a specialist unit linked to the German Luftwaffe and within the KG 200 was a stay behind unit called OLGA. OLGA was linked to France and the UK.

The ABC / 123 code for Martin Bormann was 152. The same number was for Heinrich Himmler..... Add 200. = Ju 352.

I find it very hard to believe that the STASI couldn't get to the bottom of the Hitler Diary fiasco in Bornersdorf during the 1980's. The STASI were fanatics towards anything that threatened the DDR. In the end and almost through a precise mathematical result 1989 was their ending. 100 years after Hitlers birth!

Post Reply

Return to “NSDAP, other party organizations & Government”