Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

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Ian Sayer
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Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#1

Post by Ian Sayer » 21 Feb 2017, 17:10

Looking through the various lists of Reichsleiters I noticed that there are several who were not formally assigned the position but were regarded as such and attened Reichsleiter meetings. However I just came across this photo of Hilgenfeldt and wondered whether or not he should be included in the formal Reichsleiter list?
Probably an easy answer to this somewhere so any comments appreciated.

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Ian
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Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt.jpg

Halfdan S.
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#2

Post by Halfdan S. » 21 Feb 2017, 18:08

Interesting caption, Ian, as I have picked up a similar. As tempting as it might look, I don't personally believe that Hilgenfeldt was a Reichsleiter by title, even though he did head a Hauptamt.

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Halfdan S.
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Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt.JPG
Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt.JPG (23.79 KiB) Viewed 1545 times


Ian Sayer
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#3

Post by Ian Sayer » 21 Feb 2017, 18:44

Yes. I take your point Halfdan.That photo was sent in January 1937 in response to an autograph request so was probably 1936 vintage. I'll post the letter tomorrow which originated from the Reichleitung and refers to him correctly as Hauptamtsleiter but interesting that it was produced by Hoffmann with that title. Bearing in mind the Nazi attitude to 'pecking order' perhaps a little risky or even perhaps foolhardy? Wouldn't have thought the real Reichsleiters would have been happy about it if they happened to spot it?
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Ian

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Georges JEROME
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#4

Post by Georges JEROME » 21 Feb 2017, 20:32

Erich Hilgenfedt highest rank was Oberbefehlsleiter der NSDAP since 1940.


Georges

Mark Costa
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#5

Post by Mark Costa » 21 Feb 2017, 21:53

Hilgenfeldt, obviously was never a Reichsleiter. There are men that have been referred to in official NSDAP literature that never held that rank. Eugen Lusebrink who was head of the 3rd Chamber of the Supreme Party Court was listed as a Reichsleiter in 1938. Artur Axmann, Erwin Kraus and Wilhelm Schepmann were also referred to as Reichsleiter in some publications and even newsreels, but also never received the official rank. But, in contrast to Hilgenfeldt, Axmann, Kraus and Schepmann were actually invited to Reichsleiter meetings and sat with the official Reichsleiters at public events, whereas Hilgenfeldt was not. These two references to Hilgenfeldt are, I believe just generic. Hilgenfeldt was a National Leader or Reich Leader which is different than being a Reichsleiter. Reichsleiter is an actual title and rank. Example -- Tschammer und Osten was a Reich Leader of Sport. Scholtz-Klink was Reich Leader of Women, etc but they were not Reichsleiters.

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Ian Sayer
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#6

Post by Ian Sayer » 22 Feb 2017, 14:16

Thanks for your input Georges and Mark. Yes I checked the list and the site first before asking the question and was aware, as I said, of those three who were considered to be Reichsleiters although they hadn't been formerly appointed.

I did note Mark that your in your original post on Lusebrink you suggest that the reference you saw to him as a Reichleiter was probably a misprint. Halfdan's picture appears to be from an English magazine so that could easily be a misprint too.

Of course I accept that there has been a mistake of some sort but I was wondering if there was more to it. Having a batch of cards printed with a higher rank is one thing but with Hoffmann printing them , The Reichsleitung itself sending them out and Hilgenfeldt not bothering to strike out the incorrect title just seems odd given the jealousy which existed within the party. I'm sure Hoffmann had more of a job keeping up on the military side with promotions but, for example, if a Field Marshal signed a card with his previous rank of Colonel General I think he usually wrote the new title underneath.

This photo was taken either during or before 1936. Could there have been a possibility that he had been given 'the nod' that he was in the running as a Reichsleiter but that it never went ahead?

HoweverI guess it could just have been a simple mistake. We shall probably never know for sure but I am glad that I raised it for discussion.

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Ian

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#7

Post by Mark Costa » 22 Feb 2017, 18:11

Ian:

in regards to your question about Hilgenfeldt being considered for the rank of Reichsleiter the answer would be no. After 1933 the rank was given out only two more times -- Konstantin Hierl in 1936 and Adolf Huhnlein in 1938. And even before the war Hess and Bormann were already looking into the possibility of eliminating several of the Reichsleiters by retiring them. The only one that did was Wilhelm Grimm in 1940. The status of men like Axmann, Kraus and Schepmann was always in doubt because of the fact that their predecessors were all Reichsleiters and their insignias of rank the same. As I said many official publications listed them as Reichsleiters but no official documentation from Hitler or the party Chancellery has ever been found. The only evidence that "seems" to point to some type of recognition is that of Schepmann. When he was appointed as Stabschef SA in August 1943, he wore the same type of collar tab design that Huhnlein had worn BEFORE his promotion to Reichsleiter. Then in November 1943 Schepmann then wears collar tabs similar to all the others org chiefs reichsleiters -- ie. Lutze, Himmler, Huhnlein. Why the change in November 1943? Did it mean that Schepmann was now an official Reichsleiter and allowed to wear the correct insignia. It is also telling to note that both Axmann and Kraus wore the same insignias the official Reichsleiters. Does this mean they too were Reichsleiters?? Without any documentation we will never know for sure !

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#8

Post by Ian Sayer » 23 Feb 2017, 11:50

Mark
Thanks for that. Very interesting. I still think it is odd that Hoffmann received instructions to print them, the Reichsleitung sent them out and Hilgenfeldt didn't alter his title. That's three ducks in a row! And nobody apparently said 'Hey wait a minute....' Although confusion was endemic in the Party I think general sloppiness was much rarer.
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Ian

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#9

Post by Halfdan S. » 23 Feb 2017, 21:08

Ian, your photo might have been printed at a time when Hilgenfeldt anticipated such an appointment?! Positioning was important for people like him - around this time (1937), he himself became a member of the SS. For the same reason it is my guess that the photo would date before this, as he would probably have been parading his new SS-uniform had he been a SS-member. As Marks says we might never know the story about Hilgenfeldts "Reichsleiter"-rank, though Hilgenfeldt BDC-file could hold correspondence on this subject, and maybe even tell if somebody was opposed to such an appointment? Again he didn't become a SS-member till 1937, but his SSO-file could also give something. I've literally seen thousands of these files in Berlin over the last 15 years (but so far Hilgenfeldt hasn't been one of them), I've looked through large amounts of these type of thing, amongst others numerous lists on high ranking officials and I have never seen Hilgenfeldt as a Reichsleiter - he has been mentioned together with the Reichsleiters because of his position as Leiter of a Hauptamt. So whatever the reason for the caption, I don't believe he was ever a Reichsleiter.

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Halfdan S.

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#10

Post by Ian Sayer » 24 Feb 2017, 11:47

Halfdan I agree entirely with you. Your suggestion that he might have been anticipating such an appointment could well be the answer. The photo was probably taken in 1936, possibly earlier but no later. As Mark said Hierl was promoted in 1936 and Huhnlein in 1938. I think it is certainly possible that there is an interesting 'behind the scenes' story but , as you say, unless someone find's his file we shall probably never know.
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Ian

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#11

Post by Pitino » 25 Feb 2017, 15:23

Ian,

-I too have noticed the "Reichsleiter" title with certain party members. Particularly with Ribbentrop. Ribbentrop is referred to as the Reichsleiter fur aussenpolitische Fragen, but he was really the Beauftragten der Partei fur aussenpolitische Fragen. This position was within the Stab d. StdF. In fact, Ribbentrop salivated for the official "RL d. NSDAP" title, but it was to no avail. In 1936, Ribbentrop pushed for an appointment to Reichsleiter fur Aussenpolitik and RL Rosenberg was in total disagreement for obvious reasons. Rosenberg's defensive pouting even prompted RL Schwarz to state that Rosenberg was not the RL f. Aussenpolitik, but for "Weltanschauliche schulung" only! Finally, in early 1938 Bormann stated for the official record that Ribbentrop as the Beauftragten der Partei f. aussenpolitische Fragen would in the future not be reffered to as "Reichsleiter" and that Ribbentrop held no rank higher than that of "Amtsleiter d. NSDAP". Also, Bormann made sure that these changes were to be observed in the press regulations and in the spoting events. So, this is perfect microcosm of the jealousy & infighting that went on during the Third Reich.

-I have seen GL Hans Schemm listed as "RL des NSLB" in numerous period references too. We know that Schemm was never promoted to Reichsleiter status, but he was one of those Gauleiters that held 2 titles (GL & HAL). He was a Gauleiter and a Hauptamtsleiter. The HAL came from his role as Leiter des Hauptamtes f. Erzieher.

Maybe the unofficial "Reichsleiter" title in some instances may have had something to do with the "Reichswalter" title. I know that Schemm was given the "Reichswalter NSLB" title and Hilgenfeldt was given the "Reichswalter der NSV" title. I think HDL bzw HBefL Dr. Todt was even referred to as Reichsleiter f. Technik in some period references & he also held the "Reichswalter NSBDT" title. Could be something that garners further attention!

Hilgenfeldt, as we all I have surmised did not hold the RL d NSDAP rank, only the HAL bzw. OBefL d. NSDAP rank. I have even found a few period references that list Hilgenfeldt as Hauptbefehlsleiter der NSDAP. However, to the best of my knowledge he never made HBefL d. NSDAP either, but the HBefL rank would make more sense for Hilgenfeldt that the RL d. NSDAP rank. Great topic though!!!!

Pitino

Ian Sayer
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#12

Post by Ian Sayer » 26 Feb 2017, 11:30

Pitino
Thanks for that. Your illustration of the jealousy and infighting was well chosen and that was really the issue that I thought worth exploring as a topic. All your comments are well founded and I think everybody reviewing this post will appreciate your valuable insight and input.
Thanks again
Ian

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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#13

Post by Ian Sayer » 26 Feb 2017, 14:23

Just to finish this topic off here's a 1941 pic of the main man!
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Halfdan S.
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#14

Post by Halfdan S. » 26 Feb 2017, 14:49

… with the rank insignia of a Oberbefehlsleiter and armband of a hauptamtsleiter.

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Halfdan S.

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Nicolas7507
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Re: Reichsleiter Hilgenfeldt

#15

Post by Nicolas7507 » 20 Mar 2017, 13:02

Any Idea about his Decorations?
I can see an Danzig Kreuz 1.Klasse, EK1, EK2, GPB, Beobachterabzeichen...
Is this a Hohenzollern on the second ribbon? Or a Hindeburg Cross

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