Top 50 most important Third Reich political figures

[Big Orange]

I always thought Heinrich Himmler's intelligence and ability was often underrated, mostly because he was overshadowed by the more "dashing" Reinhard Heydrich and he quite likely had no real personality or charisma. And throughout the late 30s and WWII he controlled a large chunk of the Reich's land military (the Waffen-SS), essentially all of the Reich's intelligence and law enforcement agencies (the Orpo, the Krippo, the Gestapo, the SD and eventually Abwehr) and finally he more or less had the means to incarcerate and execute anyone in the Reich whether they were Jewish captives or high ranking Nazi officials (the Allgemeine-SS death camp service).

Hermann Goering, on the other hand, seemed to be highly overrated in power and ability, mostly because his glory days were in pre-WWII Nazi Germany, well before all that rich food and narcotics got to him. Sure he had bags of personality, courage and possessed a near genius IQ of 138, but he grossly squandered all of these natural talents alongside his precious baby, the Luftwaffe, a section of the Reich's military that became almost a joke as early as 1942.

However, I'm not blaming the highly resourceful, very brave combat pilots and lower ranking officers that served with distinction, I'm mostly blaming that fat pig, Goering, for running the Luftwaffe into the ground during WWII (although to be fair there were serious economic and industrial problems that partially led to the Luftwaffe's shortcomings past 1941, plus the experimental jet aircraft and air defenses in Germany could not be sniffed at by the Allies in the latter half of the war).

I'm just curious how Hermann Goering, a natural born leader that was larger than life (and in his own way, very intelligent) could act in such a self-indulgent, shortsighted manner and was perhaps partially responsible for Germany's eventual defeat in the long run. I can probably guess why the German Heer and the SS are much more "popular" Third Reich institutions among history buffs, since they carried on through the war with surprising (scary, in the SS's case) competence towards the bitter end, while the Luftwaffe seemingly faded away by 1944.

And finally, if Hermann Goering's IQ was 138, how high were Heinrich Himmler's and Reinhard Heydrich's IQ levels? I'm not trying to praise these three monsters, I'm just curious why such evil people were unfairly and wrongly "gifted" with such high ability.

[hhh]

Goering was the most importand figure(beside Hitler) before the WW2.He gain some glory(thanks to german victories in 1939-mid 1941)But after 1941 and the many failures of Luftwaffe,Goering's influence start to shrank.

On the other hand,Goebbels and Bormann gain a great amount of influence during the war.Especially after the failures in eastern front(especially Stalingrant),Hitler starts to leave the scene and give more focus in war efforts.This "isolation" from the german people(Hitler didn't dare to speak public before a german victory during 1943)lead Goebbels to increase his power(spech about "Total War",propaganda etc).

Bormann has concetrate great power in his hand during the war(especially after Hess fly to England).He control the party and he arrange meetings between Hitler and other great figures of Reich.He has the same amount of power as Stalin during 20s(he was responsible for party and he didn't have any place in goverment).If Germany manage to win the war during 1944(something impossible)and the Nazi party stay in power,definetely Bormann would become the top figure in Reich after Hitler's death.

In the same way Himmler has great powers during the war(SS,SD,Gestapo,death camps etc).

[mizelenious]

I always thought Heinrich Himmler's intelligence and ability was often underrated, mostly because he was overshadowed by the more "dashing" Reinhard Heydrich and he quite likely had no real personality or charisma.

Hermann Goering, on the other hand, seemed to be highly overrated in power and ability, mostly because his glory days were in pre-WWII Nazi Germany, well before all that rich food and narcotics got to him.

And finally, if Hermann Goering's IQ was 138, how high were Heinrich Himmler's and Reinhard Heydrich's IQ levels? I'm not trying to praise these three monsters, I'm just curious why such evil people were unfairly and wrongly "gifted" with such high ability.

I don't think there's any definitive answer about Heydrich's IQ except I believe Max Williams notes in his book that Heydrich was quite precocious and advanced at an early age. I have looked at his birth chart and there are multiple clues about his personality, many of which have already been described quite well by his associates or his wife.

A brief overview of Heydrich's birth chart and its indication of intelligence:

Heydrich's character is very dichotomous. It's the meeting of the hypersensitive, emotional, artistic personality conflicted with an aloof, detached, and introverted demeanour.

Many of his basic placements indicate someone of above average thinking ability that feels his way through life using sheer, cold intuition. He was a born spy or detective.

His placements indicate he was also an above average people reader.

As a child, he may have been incredibly curious and enjoyed scientific topics or maths - anything where he could take things down to their basic parts and see how they work, then reorder them.

Although highly logical, Heydrich's inherent personality was illogical. Illogical meaning he may be prone to premonitions, things just not feeling right, airs of suspicion, that always lead to correct assumptions. Probably most of his decisions were based on hunches or feelings rather than raw data.

There's a lot more I can write on this subject but might be better addressed in its own forum heading. I hope some of that was interesting.

[VanillaNuns]

I always thought Heinrich Himmler's intelligence and ability was often underrated, mostly because he was overshadowed by the more "dashing" Reinhard Heydrich and he quite likely had no real personality or charisma.

Hermann Goering, on the other hand, seemed to be highly overrated in power and ability, mostly because his glory days were in pre-WWII Nazi Germany, well before all that rich food and narcotics got to him.

And finally, if Hermann Goering's IQ was 138, how high were Heinrich Himmler's and Reinhard Heydrich's IQ levels? I'm not trying to praise these three monsters, I'm just curious why such evil people were unfairly and wrongly "gifted" with such high ability.

I don't think there's any definitive answer about Heydrich's IQ except I believe Max Williams notes in his book that Heydrich was quite precocious and advanced at an early age. I have looked at his birth chart and there are multiple clues about his personality, many of which have already been described quite well by his associates or his wife.

A brief overview of Heydrich's birth chart and its indication of intelligence:

Heydrich's character is very dichotomous. It's the meeting of the hypersensitive, emotional, artistic personality conflicted with an aloof, detached, and introverted demeanour.

Many of his basic placements indicate someone of above average thinking ability that feels his way through life using sheer, cold intuition. He was a born spy or detective.

His placements indicate he was also an above average people reader.

As a child, he may have been incredibly curious and enjoyed scientific topics or maths - anything where he could take things down to their basic parts and see how they work, then reorder them.

Although highly logical, Heydrich's inherent personality was illogical. Illogical meaning he may be prone to premonitions, things just not feeling right, airs of suspicion, that always lead to correct assumptions. Probably most of his decisions were based on hunches or feelings rather than raw data.

There's a lot more I can write on this subject but might be better addressed in its own forum heading. I hope some of that was interesting.

I agree with much of what you say. But for someone of high intelligence, Heydrich was incredibly reckless and this led to many difficulties and contributed to his eventual death.

1. His conduct as a naval officer, having affairs (or sexual relations) with 2 women at once which led to the disciplinary hearing. Common sense should have told him this was behaviour unbecoming of a commissioned officer, would only lead to trouble and harm his career and promotion prospects.

2. His arrogant attitude towards the Court of Honour. If he'd nipped his tongue, it might have led to a more favourable outcome.

3. Combat missions over the Soviet Union and being shot down. Completely unnecessary. Can you imagine the propaganda coup if he'd been captured by the Red Army instead of making it back safely to German lines? The potential consequences would have been disastrous.

4. Driving through rural countryside to Prague and back every day without an armed escort. The predecessor von Neurath had always been heavily guarded whilst commuting but Heydrich thought this was unnecessary. It proved to be fatal.

5. Ordering his driver to stop when the Sten gun of Kubis jammed. By doing so he was also contravening Himmler's orders on what should happen in this situation. Instructions were to speed up and get to safety as quickly as possible. It must have surely occurred to Heydrich there would be more than one potential assassin. This final act of recklessness almost certainly cost him his life.

[ihoyos]

I don’t n=know why this 3 names are missing In the list
-Seep,Dietrich
-Victor Lutze
-Walter Darre

[Mark Costa]

I don’t n=know why this 3 names are missing In the list
-Seep,Dietrich
-Victor Lutze
-Walter Darre

I agree these three should have been on the original list from page 1. But many names are on a list because of their postwar notoriety. Eichmann for example many times appear on these type lists. He was a very small cog in a huge organization. He was only a Lt. Colonel in the SS, never met Hitler, and only appears on lists because of his attachment to the Holocaust. He was a nothing and would not even rate on the top 500 Nazi list. Many gauleiters were nothings, and certainly men like Papen and Kerrl were powerless in the full scheme of things. Even most SS generals were nothings. Dietrich would make the list only because of his attachment to Hitler as head of the LAH and his role in the Waffen SS. Lutze is a no-brainer but probably not in the top 20 . Darre would also be farther down on a list of the top 100. Heydrich was important but not more important or powerful than Ley, Rosenberg, Frank, Frick or Schwarz. They would swat him back in a heartbeat if not for Himmler. Heydrich is overrated in actual power. An SS general trying to talk down to a Reichsleiter -- not going to happen. IMO.

Mark Costa