Hans Ment and His views on Hitlers sexuality

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Brian Von Stauffenberg
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Hans Ment and His views on Hitlers sexuality

#1

Post by Brian Von Stauffenberg » 12 May 2002, 21:33

I have just seen an interesting documentary regarding Homosexuality in the Nazi Party, according to a Comrade of Hitler during WW1 called Hans Ment, Adolf Hitler was a practicing Homosexual and even had a boyfriend called Schmeidel, apparently Ments evidence is purely his own testimony but Hitler also was very Friendly with Ruhm who was openly Gay and allowed him to continue in his post with the SA, anyone else have any examples or ideas on this one?

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MVSNConsolegenerale
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Hitler a Homosexual.

#2

Post by MVSNConsolegenerale » 12 May 2002, 23:02

I've seen all the evidence promoting hitler as a homosexual and it really is sub-par. Not enough to really even more than slightly consider it.

and he was friends with the leader of the SA simply because he had been very effective, loyal...and had been in the party with him for quite some time. To be friends with a homosexual does not make you a homosexual.


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Richard Murphy
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#3

Post by Richard Murphy » 12 May 2002, 23:24

I saw this program too (I'm a fan of the "West Wing" which followed it and the Mrs. went out to talk to one of her friends.) and wasn't surprised by the allegation.
It is not uncommon for hetrosexuals to have a homosexual experience, as any psychologist will tell you, but that doesn't nessercarily make one gay.
What I found more interesting was the observation of the Nazi's homoerotic propaganda and the effect that this was to have on the Nazi state as it matured.

Regards,

Rich

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Brian Von Stauffenberg
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MVSN

#4

Post by Brian Von Stauffenberg » 13 May 2002, 11:14

I agree that being friends with a Homosexual doesnt make you gay yourself but considering Hitlers prejudices against other minorities i find it hard to believe he would be tolerant towards Gay men unless he had an affinity with them, according to all sources i have read or heard it was only on Himmlers insitance that Hitler gave the order to execute Ruhm and Himmler who instigated the purges of Homosexuals in the SS, in these cases it is very unlikely any evidence will ever be clear cut on whether Hitler was Gay or not but one thing is He never fathered a child and considering his access to women and long term partnership this seems unusual unless he was sterile, just my thoughts.

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#5

Post by Gwynn Compton » 13 May 2002, 13:02

Hitler was friendly with Rohm so long as Rohm was useful to him.

If anything, this is one aspect of Hitler's character which I have picked up from Ian Kershaw's biography. Rohm was a major figure in the paramilitary world of Weimar politics, and thus his connections were vital for the SA to continue as a viable paramilitary force.

As soon as it became clear to Hitler that Rohm was no longer of us to him, he had Rohm removed due to Rohm's own habbits which had the potential to cause great embarassment to the party. Had Rohm not been such a character, and had such a potential to embarass the party, I imgaine he would have simply been shuffled away from the high ranks of the party rather than outright killed.

I rank such claims of Hitler being a homosexual as about on par with UFO claims. Endlessly fascinating for the media, but lacking any truly solid evidence.

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Brian Von Stauffenberg
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lol

#6

Post by Brian Von Stauffenberg » 13 May 2002, 13:23

I have seen a UFO but unfortunately it didnt stop for me to get solid evidence :wink:

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#7

Post by Pumpkin » 13 May 2002, 14:11

Hitler was friendly with Rohm so long as Rohm was useful to him.

If anything, this is one aspect of Hitler's character which I have picked up from Ian Kershaw's biography.
But Hitler was excessively loyal to others after they weren't of much use to him anymore. Such as Göring and Mussolini.

Was Röhm really openly homosexual? I'm sure that party intelligence found out, but did the public know?

I think that the connection between nazi's and homosexuality is related to the post war out-of-context interpretation of the propaganda and use of uniforms of the time, in combination maybe with SM tendencies among some sexual deviants.

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Brian Von Stauffenberg
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Yes

#8

Post by Brian Von Stauffenberg » 13 May 2002, 15:02

He was openly gay and most people knew it, i have seen pictures of graffita saying "Clean your arse boys Ruhm is coming", it was definately no secret and he and his friends and were regulars at a gay Nightclub in Berlin, as for his being executed due to not being "Of use" anymore i dont buy that, Hitler actually deliberated over killing Ruhm for two days before Himmler pressured him into it.

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Richard Murphy
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"Night of the Long Knives"

#9

Post by Richard Murphy » 14 May 2002, 08:01

Röhm wasn't killed because he was gay, his organisation was seen by German conservative's and, particularly, the Army as a threat because they wanted to continue the "National Socialist" revolution and make the SA the formal armed forces of the State.
Hitler needed the support of both the Army and major industrialists to remain in power, and could not to be seen to be weak in the face of potential opposition, hence his ruthlessness in dealing with it, and his reluctance to treat one of his most loyal lieutenants the same way.
Whether it was Himmler, Blomberg or someone else that persuaded him that the Hydra would not die unless he cut off all its heads will probably never be known.

Regards from the Park,

Rich

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Brian Von Stauffenberg
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Agree

#10

Post by Brian Von Stauffenberg » 14 May 2002, 10:29

I agree with your point Rich, but just to add, Himmler wanted more and more power and felt threatened by Rohm, also the fact that Himmler was an extreme Homophobe possibly contributed to his insitance that Hitler have him executed, thats my take on it based on what i have read and heard but as always with research of things past my opinions will probably change as i read more, it all makes for intersting debate all the same. :D

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#11

Post by Pumpkin » 14 May 2002, 11:29

Would it be fair to say that getting rid of Röhm meant strengthening both the old military aristocratic establishment AND the SS? Or did the power of SS start to grow much later?

I think that the strange combination of the more or less unpolitical aristocratic officer corps and the ideological core represented by the SS contributes to making it a bit difficult to get the hang of the Third Reich. Most people of the time must've believed that the SA, a broad and almost socialistically revolutionary organization, was to form the backbone of the state after the seizure of power. The Third Reich doesn't seem very "gleichgeschaltet" after all, since very different groups had substantial power. But that kind of "corporativism", the merger of established power centres through an almost unbloody revolution is a hallmark of fascism, isn't it?

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#12

Post by Gwynn Compton » 15 May 2002, 09:52

as for his being executed due to not being "Of use" anymore i dont buy that, Hitler actually deliberated over killing Ruhm for two days before Himmler pressured him into it.
I was elaborating on an aspect of Hitler's character which Ian Kershaw believes was important. As for Hitler's deliberation, I imagine it's somewhat connected to Hitler's attachment to Goering and other people who had also outlived their use to him. Rohm as the old fighter, as a sort of friend. Though this certainly isn't the only reasoning for it, I believe it is a contributing factor.
Would it be fair to say that getting rid of Röhm meant strengthening both the old military aristocratic establishment AND the SS? Or did the power of SS start to grow much later?
It certainly cleared the way for the rise of the SS unimpeeded by the SA, and removed a threat to the military establishment and it's aristocrats.

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