Children of leading Nazis

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ladycplum
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by ladycplum » 30 Nov 2011 03:10

Isn't Bettina the one who had herself sterilized so that she wouldn't pass on Göring blood anymore?
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J. Duncan
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by J. Duncan » 30 Nov 2011 09:15

I think she did. Rather foolish of her because that kind of thinking is exactly what the Nazis believed. The Nazis (and the Soviets) believed in acquired hereditary characteristics. The Nazis thought that a person handed down to the next generation their mixed blood, bad genes, diseases, and even criminality (the mind). The Soviets believed that if you indoctrinate enough people in Communism, starting when very young, the ideology would eventually pass on genetically to their unborn children. People would eventually be born "instinctively Communist". Her case is one of applied Nazism in order to refute Nazism. Absurd.

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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Phil Nix » 30 Nov 2011 12:11

J. Duncan wrote:I think she did. Rather foolish of her because that kind of thinking is exactly what the Nazis believed. The Nazis (and the Soviets) believed in acquired hereditary characteristics. The Nazis thought that a person handed down to the next generation their mixed blood, bad genes, diseases, and even criminality (the mind). The Soviets believed that if you indoctrinate enough people in Communism, starting when very young, the ideology would eventually pass on genetically to their unborn children. People would eventually be born "instinctively Communist". Her case is one of applied Nazism in order to refute Nazism. Absurd.
But surely she believed in that stupidy and therefore she was trying to refute it which was a good thing from where she was
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Annelie
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Annelie » 30 Nov 2011 14:53

There are some out there that believe in inherited proclivity

http://www.personalvaluation.com/infp_personality.shtml

I read some time ago that family of HItler living in Long Island NY
also made sure to never procreate.

ladycplum
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by ladycplum » 02 Dec 2011 03:05

I know Hans Frank's son Norman made the conscious decision to never have children because he didn't want the name (bloodline) to continue. It just shows had badly some of these children were damaged, even if they don't look at themselves that way. Edda Göring never married or had children, by all accounts Gudrun Himmler is a bitter old spinster whom no other "Nazi children" socialize with, Wolf-Rüdiger Hess's life was consumed by either fighting to stay out of the army or working towards his father's release, then trying to prove he was murdered. Anyone who's read Niklas Frank's book would see just how utterly twisted his hatred for his father has made him. Heck, it even goes down the family lines further. Artur Seyss-Inquart's grandson wanted to help out at the Anne Frank Huis, mainly because he is 100% the opposite of his gradnfather, but the head of the Anne Frank foundation basically said it would be a cold day in hell before anyone related to that man would be allowed near the house. He was really hurt by that, even though he understood the reasons why, and I'm rambling so I'll shut my gob. :)
"The more I see, the more I know. The more I know, the less I understand"-Paul Weller

vonstauffenberg
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by vonstauffenberg » 17 Dec 2011 20:55

Edda Göring is still alive. She is 73 now.

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Adam Carr
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Adam Carr » 19 Dec 2011 10:07

The Soviets did not believe in heriditary characteristics. The whole point of socialism was to change the nature of man by changing his material circumstances, a kind of social Lamarckianism. The reason the fraud T D Lysenko was taken so seriously in the Soviet Union was that he claimed to have disproved Mendelian genetics and demonstrated the mutability of physical types.

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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by J. Duncan » 20 Dec 2011 09:50

Top is direct quote from wikipedia article on "Lysenkoism".

"Lysenkoism, or Lysenko-Michurinism, also denotes the biological inheritance principle which Trofim Lysenko subscribed to and which derive from theories of the heritability of acquired characteristics,[1] a body of biological inheritance theory which departs from Mendelism and that Lysenko named "Michurinism".

You are correct in that it was a turning away from Mendel, but you will notice the words "acquired characteristics". The Nazis didn't use the term, but they knew about Cesare Lombroso and his theories of inheritable criminality, the later studies of the Jukes and the Kalikaks. The Nazis stressed the biological (but slyly added the behavioral with this twist of the inheritable criminality of the mind). The Soviets stressed the behavioral...if you indoctrinate succeeding generations with communist ideology, you will have "born communists". Lysenko was one of the greatest charlatans who ever lived and a lot of people starved and suffered for his theories...I confess, I do not understand all of his nonsense about the production of corn crops, but there is enough in the secondary literature to illustrate the tragic consequences of believing in pseudo-science. Point is, both ideologies adhered to certain doctrines of heredity in their efforts to build a "New Man", and for Bettina Göring and others to make statements that endorse them (while the world applauds their "sacrifice") gives one pause. Think of the hypocrisy of it. We supposedly live in a world that has rejected those theories yet because the niece of a famous Nazi war criminal says she is giving up children so there will be no more Göring's we are all supposed to shout Bravo! Well done. You have blessed mankind with your sacrifice! Absurd. I can paraphrase Hitler from Mein Kampf on the subject of the sterilization of incurables..."unfortunate for the individual, but what a blessing for mankind".

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Annelie
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Annelie » 20 Dec 2011 13:08

Bettina Göring and others to make statements that endorse them (while the world applauds their "sacrifice") gives one pause. Think of the hypocrisy of it. We supposedly live in a world that has rejected those theories yet because the niece of a famous Nazi war criminal says she is giving up children so there will be no more Göring's we are all supposed to shout Bravo! Well done. You have blessed mankind with your sacrifice! Absurd. I can paraphrase Hitler from Mein Kampf on the subject of the sterilization of incurables..."unfortunate for the individual, but what a blessing for mankind".
I don't think somehow that is how these people think of it as being an sacrifice. They seem to feel the burden of
being the offspring and relatives of these war criminals. I suppose in their minds they want to make sure
nothing like this would happen again?

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Adam Carr
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Adam Carr » 21 Dec 2011 08:07

It's been widely reported that Hitler's closest living blood relatives, the three sons of William P. Hitler, who live in New York under another surname, have also agreed not to have children for fear of passing on Hitler's "evil bloodline." It's sadly ironic that in their rejection of Nazism, they and other Nazikinder have subscribed to one of its key doctrines, the biological basis of personal worth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/nyreg ... wanted=all

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Annelie
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Annelie » 21 Dec 2011 14:32

Adam, as you know traits were prevously only thought to be of physical nature but new studies
are now showing that personality traits maybe inherited. Perhaps these relatives of Hitler were not
wrong to do what they did to stop the bloodline?

Reminds me of a movie .....The Boys from Brazil

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/12/02/scien ... wanted=all

http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/second.aspx on the subject of behavioral genetics

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Adam Carr
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Adam Carr » 21 Dec 2011 23:43

Well, no, because if that is true then Hitler was right, so they should breed up some more Hitlers to take up the cause.

Coetzee
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by Coetzee » 18 Nov 2013 13:33

Hi

I have read that Manfred Rommel died at the age of 84 on 7 November 2013.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/ob ... ld_marshal

ladycplum
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Re: Children of leading Nazis

Post by ladycplum » 19 Nov 2013 05:21

Coetzee wrote:Hi

I have read that Manfred Rommel died at the age of 84 on 7 November 2013.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/ob ... ld_marshal
Yes, you're right. Bless his soul, to lose his father like he did was just horrid.
"The more I see, the more I know. The more I know, the less I understand"-Paul Weller

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