Ribbentrops Medals?

[Ant!]

Wow,

My hat is off to you Kimmel.

What other personality items have you had or do have.

Sincerely,
Karl

[WCSTUMP]

Sorry, but I am Mr. Stump. I have had over the years Hitler Water Colors, items from Goring, Paulus, Hitler Silver ware and related small items, but the Ribbentrop Collection was the crown of all orders, medals and other decoration of a high personality of that period. Personally, I prefer the common items of the average sailor, airman and "grunt" if I can get the history of the item to tie it with the person who was awarded to.

[grengulf]

An amazing story. Thank you for posting it, Mr. Stump.

[WCSTUMP]

[WCSTUMP]

It would have been nice to have been able to donate these great items to a museum, but from my stand point as a school teacher in the late 60's, married and starting a family, I had to sell the collection as I had borrowed heavily to purchase it and only want one of the decorations in the lot, The Special Grand Cross in Gold to the Order of the German Eagle. If I had donated the collection to a museum I would have been receiving donations from the confines of the poor house. A philanthropist would have had no problem in donating the collection to a museum, but it would have created a personal financial disaster for me.

[WCSTUMP]

That great decoration is now in a private museum in Europe. It was better me than thou to have made a profit. I was just a temporary custodian of the medals in my collection and when I sold them they become property of other "custodians" of war booty. What great item have you donated to a museum to feel so sanctified?

[WCSTUMP]

THE TREASURE TROVE OF JOACHIM VON RIBBENTROP

Text © Copyright W. C. Stump 2002

During the fierce and bloody battles fought around the world during W. W. II the victors in all battles always removed or took from the defeated foe his side arms, medals, or anything else of value the victor wanted. What was not taken immediately after the battles, the new P. O. W. probably lost anything else he had when he arrived for interrogation and processing at the P. O. W. camp or holding areas. The usual track of the captured enemy’s belonging usually started out from his person directly into the pocket of the field jacket of the victor. This has been true from the beginning of recorded history of armed warfare and American G. I. Perfected the art of “liberation”.

In the beginning, the value of the G. I.’s usual war booty was merely sentimental. It was his victory prize and for many a monitory value never played a part in their initial acquiring of their foe’s personal items. However, some war booty was priceless works of art from the standpoint of both the collector and historical value while the most was considered common battle field items such as a Luger, Mauser rifle, binocular, dagger, sword or helmet or decoration. Most would become less sentimental and quickly turned their war booty into cash after returning from the war. Enter the collector and dealer, but before he get into those fields lets look back at the exploits of one particular G. I. The setting was in early 1945, as the war was coming to an end, when one American Army officer not only added to his war booty, but probably set a record by discovering the most valuable treasure throve of valuable order and medals discovered during WWII by a single individual.

The American and allied armies were rapidly liberating vas area of Axis controlled territory. Howard Goldsmith, then a Captain in the 44th Infantry Division, was in the lead elements as the Division seized and occupied the lovely Austrian village of Umhausen. The division was exhausted and finding suitable billets was of foremost importance. The men had slept in the snow, mud and rain as they faced the elements for weeks and months on end. A clean and soft bed would be a welcomed site and it was in the luxurious Hotel Krone that Captain Goldsmith chose for him and his men.

As the Captain and his men entered the hotel the Austrian Innkeeper met them. He told Captain Goldsmith that he was sorry, but they could not stay at his hotel because it was forbidden for anyone to use the hotel and especially the 2nd floor was off limits to everyone. Captain Goldsmith was taken back at the words of the innkeeper and said that he had to hold his composure and initial instinct to just shoot the man right there on the spot, he pushed him aside and in a flash became the new Innkeeper of the Hotel Krone. Very inquisitive at what was so important on the 2nd floor, he and his men barged in and found that all the rooms were filled trunks, clothing, and countless personal items. Looking further he discovered that he had came across millions of dollars of art loot stolen by the Nazis from Parisian and many other museums through out Europe. The items included rare tapestries, gold and jewels, classic oil paintings, some by Ruben and Renoir.

As a result of interrogating the Innkeeper, it was discovered that he had been put in charge of storing and protecting the personal belongings of the Nazi Foreign Minister, Ribbentrop. It seems that the Foreign Minister was occupied elsewhere at this time, but was planning to return and make his escape across the Austrian Alps into Switzerland and take his stolen items with him.

The best part of the find came when Goldsmith came across file boxes upon file boxes filled with confidential Nazi governmental records. These records were later used in the Nuremberg war trials and helped send Ribbentrop to another destination other than Switzerland.

What caught Goldsmith eye came during the examination of the contents of the treasure hoard. He found a large custom-made leather box with the letter “G S M” ( State Foreign Ministry) engraved into the top of the box. Upon opening the box he found it filled will every order, decoration and medal that had ever been bestowed upon the Foreign Minister. Over 100 items were in the box and padded felt partitions kept the expensive and exquisite items protected from being damaged in shipping. Since these items were of no intelligence interest to the higher headquarters, and upon completing his inventory, he merely requested that he be allowed to keep them as war souvenirs. Ecstatic over obtaining so much valuable intelligence evidence and recovering the vast stolen art treasures he was granted official permission to keep the uniforms and medals as legitimate war souvenirs.

Captain Goldsmith wasted no time in getting the items shipped back home. He, being an officer and with official clearance to keep the items, simply boxed everything up and shipped it back to the states to his home in College Station, Texas. Upon arriving back home he had the items appraised and found that the value at that time was around $40,000.00. Many of the decorations were made of fine gold, silver, and some inlaid with diamonds and other precious stones. They had been awarded to von Ribbentrop by many foreign governments to include Hungary, Spain, Japan, Finland, Denmark, Italy, and Egypt to name a few. As per the uniforms and medals, Col. Goldsmith said, “Ribbentrop had no further use for the gala dress uniforms or decorative medals where he went”.

For many years after the war, Colonel Goldsmith proudly displayed the medals at various VFW and Veterans of Foreign War meetings. By the late 60’s American had moved on, the cold war was the biggest worry, and the Colonel put is treasures away. Not until my big mouth and the quick action of my late friend Jim Atwood did they become once again war booty par excellent and a young Kentucky hillbilly become the last owner of the orders and medals of the Nazi Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop.

[Richard van Kempen]

hi all

as i said in my previous postings (i'm new to the collecting hobby)
and i think it's a shame that people use this forum for personal vendetta
i'm here to learn about all 3rd reich awards...... in my relative short life i already learn how to insult people who diserve it....BUT ..
here i'm trying to learn ..

and i must say that no matter how old or experienced you are one could always learn from one or the other..

let me tell you something of topic..

i'm a welder 29 years old ,and in my profesion there are alot of old guys.
some of them will learn you what they learned over the years and some don't because they want to stay important for some reason..now here is my point..
about 2 years ago one of the elder welders came to me and said how i should be welding a certifeid pipe.. but when i looked to his work a saw a few flaws ,i told him about it and he looked at it again and showed me how he did it and why...
i showed him how i would have done it and after a small discusion he saw what he did wrong he tried it my way and saw that that was one of the right ways to do it...so my conclusion was that everyone learns al the time ..and should respect each other . even the novice welder or in this case collector could shed new light on the subject..and if you can't agree with that you can always make a polite reply..

and maybe the moderators should delete all topics and start over with a clean forum ...and kick anyone who does not respect or make a civil reply


richard

[R. J. Kimmel]

Good morning Mr. Tracy... to quote a well known author "If wishes were horses, beggers would ride".

Please tell us what all this nonsense has to do wth the appropriated Ribbentrop medals by the Officer & Gentleman Colonel?

/RK

[WCSTUMP]

Here we go again. Then Capt. Howard Goldsmith DID NOT APPROPRIATE the orders and medals of Nazi Foreign Minister J. von Ribbentrop. To APPROPRIATE one has to "take and make use of something without authority or right". This man was an officer and a gentleman, by ACT OF THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and was granted OFFICIAL permission from his superiors to take as his personal property, as approved war souvenirs, the property that had been liberated and confiscated by THE ARMY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN A TIME OF WAR. In short, you are accusing an American War Hero of STEALING. You should be ashamed of yourself for besmirching the reputation of a man of the high character and bravery who fought to keep yours and your children's children free from the aggression of a world dictator.

[Richard van Kempen]

I personaly can understand why mr Stump broke up his grouping.

I'm currently in a financial disaster myself. 2years ago i lost my job to a illness...i was just starting a family,a baby was coming ..and i lost my job
after 1.5 years my financial back up was gone..and bill started piling up
i barely payed the rent,but the rest of the bills went in a drawer with the intension to pay them a.s.a.p. but we couldn't:(

finaly we divorced due to financial stress

now if i had the ribbentrop collection i would have sold them just to save my behind and my marriage.

but i don't have it so you can gues the rest

now.. if mr Stump didn't sell them (witch he probably didn't want to sell in the first place )
he would have ended up like yours truely
so what is the wizesed move living without financial means and end up divorced and poor. or sell your collection and save all you hold dear

thank you Richard

[Sven Kondor]

Richard van Kempen the difference being, he knew he couln't keep them when he bought them, if you had owned them that would have been a different story. Sorry to hear of your misfortunes.
I hope things are looking better now.

[WCSTUMP]

I purchased the Ribbentrop collection for two reasons. First and foremost I had probably the best and most complete private collection of orders, medals and decorations of the Third Reich era in 1968. I had accumulated the collection by sacrificing many other pleasures of life, including depriving my wife and family of things that would have made their and my life better. Second the foreign orders and medals were of no interest to me at all and the one order I thought I had to have was the Special Grand Gross in Gold to the German Eagle. Being a dealer of relics and firearms at the time also, I was looking to make a profit as all businessmen do. The "Holy than thou" critics of today would have been told what I would like to tell them today, but I would get banned for doing so. Finally, the personal "vanity" I felt by owning the most outstanding single collections of orders and medals ever found during W.W.II era was great and no one has ever topped that record. one other thing is that had I not bought the collection it was going to be split up anyway and I might not Have been able to get the Order of the German Eagle, made no profit, and the personal "Glory" in my mind would have never been mine. Remember, all glory is fleeting and for a short moment in time, I was "DA MAN" in the collecting world of Third Reich orders and medal collectors.

[R. J. Kimmel]

Richard van Kempen the difference being, he knew he couln't keep them when he bought them, if you had owned them that would have been a different story. Sorry to hear of your misfortunes.
I hope things are looking better now.

Their must be some truth in that there is some sort of psychological fascination with NAZI artifacts, or if you wish memorabilia. In my longevity in this hobby I have heard of individuals spending their entire pay checks, while some have taken second mortgages on their homes to feed this addiction, insetad of ther family. As Mr. Christpher Aislby once referred to this as "The Collecting Disease".

/RK

[WCSTUMP]

I wrote above this statement. "I had accumulated the collection by sacrificing many other pleasures of life, including depriving my wife and family of things that would have made their and my life better." I didn't say that I was starving my wife and son, not providing their basic needs, or not buying them what they wanted or the like. When I sold the collection I did so to purchase a house, which I did (three to be exact), purchased two new vehicles, expanded my business and opened three more, and we lived a better life that we had been living material wise. I quit working as a school teacher and Public Health Supervisor and have never worked for anyone out of financial need from 1976 to this date. Until I had a heart transplant in 1996, I was quite financially well off, traveled the world, vacationed with my family, and lived the American Dream. My now ex-wife has it all, my dear son was murdered, but I have a lovely daughter and new grandson that gives me the motivation to go on with my life. So for all the split forked tongue sacrilegious critics, you can take a flying leap and do what Hermann Goring told "Wild Bill" Donavon after his arrest, and before the war crimes trial, he would like to tell the judges to do. If anyone doesn't know that story, and wants to know, just email me and I will be more than happy to tell you.