Hitler and Sex

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R.M. Schultz
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This should settle it.

#136

Post by R.M. Schultz » 22 Feb 2003, 06:10

Last year I was paid to research and review “The Hidden Hitler” by Lothar Machtan for a public forum sponsored by the Chicago Public Library. My findings were largely as follows:

1] Machtan’s thesis was that Hitler was gay and that explains a lot. This is just a lot of nonsense cooked up to sell some books.

2] Hitler only had one ball.

• Hitler’s army record, now lost, says that during venereal inspections it was discovered that he only had one testicle.

• Henrietta von Schirach says that Professor Kielleuthner, a Münich urologist, had told her that Hitler had come to him for treatment of monochism (having only one testicle) but that it was too late to help him.

• Soviet autopsy confirms that Hitler’s left testicle was missing.

• Hanfstaengle claims that Army comrades, who had seen him in the wash house, had commented to him about how Hitler’s genitals were “freakishly underdeveloped.”

3] Was Hitler a “normal” Heterosexual? Hard to say …

• Mein Kampf is loaded with sexual imagery, virtually all of it negative, dwelling at length upon syphilis, rape, prostitution, and “the most disgusting” sexual practices.

• Hitler loved pornography, read Der Stürmer with great interest, had a collection of blue movies.

• Hanfstaengle, Otto Strasser, and Hermann Rauschning claim that he fairly groveled before women he found attractive, “in a most disgusting manner.”

• In front of many witnesses, at a social gathering, the tactless and out-spoken Ernst Röhm blurted out: “He is thinking about the peasant girls. When they stand in the fields and bend down at their work so that you can see their behinds, that’s what he likes, especially when they’ve got big round ones. That’s Hitler’s sex life. What a man.” Hitler, who was present did not stir a muscle, but only stared at Röhm with compressed lips.

4] Hitler apparently did have a perfectly normal sexual relationship with Mimi Reiter in 1927/8. When she and Hitler broke up in 1928 she tried to kill herself. After recovering, she married a hotel-keeper in Seefeld. In 1931 or 32, Hess was sent to fetch the girl. She spent the night at Hitler’s flat, commenting later: “Ich liess alles mit mir geschehen.” (“I let him do whatever he wanted with me.”) He wanted her to be his mistress, but she held out for matrimony. On her own initiative, she visited him again in 1934. Again she spent the night with him, this time in the Chancery, and again he refused to marry her. They never saw each other after that, but Hitler did send her 100 red roses when her second husband, an SS officer, was killed in 1940.

5] Poor Henny Hoffman seems to have been shell-shocked by her affair with Hitler. Otto Strasser claims that Hitler’s first real affair was with Henrietta Hoffman, the daughter of the photographer. Henny was an indiscreet adolescent who “chattered freely” about what she had Hitler did together, so that her father came to Hitler demanding an explanation. The girl had been “ruined” for normal love and so a settlement was in order. A deal was struck, Hoffman was to have exclusive rights to photograph Hitler, a boon that was to make him a wealthy man, and Henny was to be married off to Baldur von Schirach, the paedophile who was to become Reich Youth Leader.

6] Hitler’s affair with Geli Raubal seems to have been pretty twisted.

• In 1929 Hitler wrote a letter to Geli about masochistic and coprophiliac fantasies he had been having about her. This letter fell into the hands of his landlady’s son, Dr. Rudolph. Party treasurer, Franz Xaver Schwarz, engaged Fr. Bernhard Stempfle to get it back.

• Hanfstaengle claims that he saw pornographic drawings of Geli’s genitals that “only a perverted voyeur could have committed to paper.” Drawings like these were also involved in another blackmail incident. After they were bought back by Schwarz, they were not destroyed, but kept in a safe at the Brown House.

• sa Officer Wilhelm Stocker, a frequent guard at Hitler’s flat, claims to have enjoyed Geli’s favors. “She admitted to me that at times Hitler made her do things in the privacy of her room that sickened her but when I asked her why she didn’t refuse to do them she just shrugged and said that she didn’t want to lose him to some woman that would do what he wanted …”

• Henny Hoffman wrote that Geli said she could not bring herself to do “what he wants me to”

• Otto Strasser went with Geli to 1931 carnival. Geli told him: “[Hitler] demanded things from her that were simply disgusting. She had never dreamed that such things could happen. When I asked her to tell me, she described things I had previously encountered in my reading of Krafft-Ebbing’s Psychopathia Sexualis when I was a student.” In a May 1943 interview with OSS agent Dr. Walter Langer in Ottawa Canada, he went into detail: “Hitler made her undress … He would lie on the floor. Then she would have to squat over his face, where he could examine her at close range and this made him very excited. When the excitement reached its peak, he demanded that she urinate on him and this gave him sexual pleasure. Geli said the whole performance was extremely disgusting to her and … it gave her no gratification.” (Same story as Henny Hoffman.)

• Kurt Lüdecke claimed that Geli’s autopsy showed that she was a virgin.

7] In 1943, the OSS interviewed exiled German film director Adolf Zeissler. He said that, while in London in 1936, the film actress Renaté Müller and told him of her affair with Hitler.

• She met Hitler in the autumn of 1932 (this would be about a year after Geli’s death) while she was filming a movie on Kiel Bay. He seemed fascinated with her. She was later invited a party in the Chancery and, after that, to frequent dinners there. One night, after a dinner in his quarters at the Chancery, they had both taken off their clothes and Müller thought they were going to have sex, but Hitler fell to the floor and begged her to hit and kick him. She refused, but he went on heaping abuse and accusations upon himself, insisting that he was unworthy to be in the same room with her, that he was her slave, and so on. At length, she gave in, kicking him, abusing him with foul language, striking him with his whip. He became excited and masturbated to a climax. After this they dressed, had a nightcap, Hitler thanked her for a pleasant evening, and a servant saw her out.

• Sometime after this, in 1936, she took a vacation to London where she was kept under Gestapo surveillance. In London she saw both Zeissler, whom she told her story to, and her ex-lover Frank Deutsch whom she briefly resumed her intimacy with.

• Returning to Germany, she found herself blacklisted and it was rumored that she was to be put on trial for “race defamation,” as her lover Deutsch was Jewish. Under this pressure she became addicted to morphine. To cure this, she entered a sanitarium. After being discharged, she tried to see Hitler, who refused to see her. Back in the sanitarium, she was looking out the window one day in 1937, when she saw a car full of SS officers pull up. Believing that her arrest was immanent, she killed herself by jumping out the window.

8] Contradictory evidence exists about the affair with Eva Braun:

• Eva told her sisters that her sex relations with Hitler were “completely normal.” But she also confided to a schoolgirl friend (the future Fräu Esser): “Als Mann habe ich von ihm überhaupt nichts.” (roughly “As a man, from him I get nothing.”)

• Herbert Döring, chief at Obersaltzberg said: “Their relation ship never went that far (sex), Never! Never!” and “ Let me be completely honest with you. We did some spy work back then — no one knew about that — to see if we could find anything in the beds. And all those years, that never happened. I am sure of that. But that’s all I want to say about this private matter.”

• Albert Speer claims that Eva Braun told him, in the middle of 1943, that “Hitler had told her that he was too busy, too immersed, too tired — he could no longer satisfy her as a man.”

9] Eight women that are thought, possibly, to have been intimate with Hitler, attempted suicide: Mimi Reiter tried to hang herself 1928, Geli Raubal died of a gun-shot 1931, Eva Braun tried suicide in 1932 and 1935 before succeeding in 1945, Frau Inge Ley, Renaté Müller, and Suzi Liptauer were all successful suicides, and Unity Mitford attempted suicide in 1939.

10] “Carpet Chewing” referred not to any sexual practice, but rather to the way Hitler was alleged to throw himself on the ground during his fits of rage and literally chew the carpet with rabid hatred. Propaganda and nothing more.

11] Otto Strasser wrote a book about sexual deviation among Nazi’s, “The Gangsters Around Hitler,” Allen, London, 1942. In it he accused Helmuth Brückner, Otto Dietrich, Hans Frank, Dietrich von Jagow, Hans Frank, Wilhelm Brückner, and Karl Kaufman of being homosexuals.

12] My tally of sexual deviation in the nsdap is as follows:

Rudolf Hess: Transvestite, possibly bisexual or even primarily homosexual.

Ernst Röhm: Dominant homosexual.

Ritter von Epp: A perennial bachelor, alleged by Machtan to be a homosexual, though there is no evidence for this.

Edmund Heines: Homosexual and sadist. Procurer for Röhm.

Gerhard Roßbach: Bisexual, initiated Röhm into homoeroticism.

Ernst Hanfstaengel: Bisexual inclinations.

Walter Funk: Alleged by Hjalmar Schacht to be a “harmless homosexual and alcoholic.”

Baldur von Schirach: Bisexual and probably a pederast.

Julius Streicher: Sadist and pornographer. Accused of pederasty.

Albert Forester: Homosexual.

Reinhard Heydrich: Rapist, sadist, and alleged homosexual.

Kurt Lüdecke: Homosexual (possibly bisexual) blackmailer.

Graf von Helldorf: Notorious homosexual.

13] A short bibliography of reliable books on the subject would include:
• Walter C. Langer, “The Mind of Adolf Hitler: the Secret Wartime Report,” Basic Books, N.Y.C. & London, 1972. Not only a valuable book itself, but the only readily available source for the OSS interviews of Otto Strasser and Hermann Rauschning.

• Otto Strasser, “Hitler and I,” translated from the French by Gwenda David and Erich Mosbacher, Johnathan Cape, London, 1940. A vivid and accessible portrait by an important political rival of Hitter.

• Ronald Hayman, “Hitler & Geli,” Bloomsbury, N.Y.C., 1998. A generally reliable popular history on a fascinating mystery.

• Glenn B. Infield, “Eva and Adolf,” Grosset & Dunlap, N.Y.C., 1974. A popular work sometimes citing dubious sources. Eva proves less interesting, however, than Geli.

• Robert G.L.Waite, “The Psychopathic God Adolf Hitler,” Basic Books, N.Y.C., 1977. Probably the best book on Hitler as a person.

• Hans Peter Bleuel, “Sex and Society in Nazi Germany,” translated by J. Maxwell Brownjohn, J.P. Lipincott Company, Philadelphia and N.Y.C., 1973. A first-rate overview of Nazi family and social policy as well as current sexual mores.[/b]

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#137

Post by Scott Smith » 22 Feb 2003, 07:04

Hanfstaengl, Strasser, and Rauschning were ultimately Hitler's enemies and hardly reliable as sources on Hitler's intimate personal life, even for an OSS report, which can hardly be considered anything other than Black Propaganda, the generation of which was its job.
:)


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R.M. Schultz
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#138

Post by R.M. Schultz » 22 Feb 2003, 10:51

1] True they were Hitler's enemies, but you certainly can't expect his friends to talk of such things.

2] Strasser, and Rauschning independently corroborated each other and were also themselves from different factions of the NSDAP.

3] The OSS report was an internal document, not propaganda, that was used in forming policy not in influencing public opinion.

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#139

Post by Maple 01 » 22 Feb 2003, 11:56

This is one of the annoying problems with this forum, say anything vaguely contentious - even if only for the purpose of string up debate, and someone who feels that their world view is being challenged pops up demanding 'proof' as if everything that has ever happened is documented or that the documentation has survived -

Remember the scene in 'Fatherland' (the book) where the historian is feeding paperwork into a furnace? The hero asks what he is doing and he replies 'that's where the inconvenient history goes' or something similar

This demand for 'proof' comes to a head with Holocaust topics when deniers expect some cast-iron standard of proof - straggly more than in the British legal system where only 'beyond reasonable doubt' is the more common-sense standard.

Even here, I suspect if someone could provide incontrovertible proof about Adolf's sexual predilections those arguing against it would claim it to be fake.

Regards

-Nick

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#140

Post by Scott Smith » 22 Feb 2003, 11:57

R.M. Schultz wrote:1] True they were Hitler's enemies, but you certainly can't expect his friends to talk of such things.
They have an axe to grind and their stories must be qualified accordingly. Lurid tales are nearly always a dead giveaway to lies.
2] Strasser, and Rauschning independently corroborated each other and were also themselves from different factions of the NSDAP.
Not quite independently corroborated since such scandalous rumors are not difficult to generate from the oldest tricks in the book and were likely cherrypicked for texture and consistency some time afterward anyway. That is like throwing random shot at the target and only counting the bulls-eyes.
3] The OSS report was an internal document, not propaganda, that was used in forming policy not in influencing public opinion.
The Allied cause was steeped in internal propaganda. And one of the most basic principles of propaganda is that it should not be directed exclusively at one class or level. Policymakers are indoctrinated differently than the masses but they are still indoctrinated.

The OSS specialized in Black Propaganda.

Let's see, do we make Hitler a...

Pervert, eunuch, sodomite, drunkard, incompetent, idiot, womanizer, drug addict, psychotic, pederast, impotent, syphilitic....


The one that cracks me up the most is Hitler-explainer Ron Rosenbaum's claim that Boy-Hitler got his glans bitten off by a goat while attempting fellatio.

Anyway, the list is long and not hard to invent for the occasion or to taylor for best-effect wherever necessary.

For troops going into battle against the Germans you would probably not say that Hitler was not a great military leader because if Fritzy fought well then your own troops might lose their faith. You would want to paint Hitler as an Evil Genius here.

On the other hand, for a psywar campaign directed against German leaders, your black propaganda would say that the Wehrmacht, and particularly the venerable General Staff, won the war but that Hitler lost it.

And of course, the Family Values thing always works well for bourgeois audiences.

But you would think that the Gay-Hitler thing would score him points these days for being hip.

Ewa, where's my pink uniform?
:lol:

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Don't believe Everything you read

#141

Post by White Leopard » 22 Feb 2003, 12:03

10] “Carpet Chewing” referred not to any sexual practice, but rather to the way Hitler was alleged to throw himself on the ground during his fits of rage and literally chew the carpet with rabid hatred. Propaganda and nothing more.
A mistaken literalization of a figurative German phrase used to describe one who would pace around the room. Hitler was a habitual pacer.

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Carpet Chewer

#142

Post by R.M. Schultz » 22 Feb 2003, 13:09

It may well be the case that "carpet chewer" is idiomatic German for someone who paces, but reports of Hitler actually chewing on carpets in the Chancery were so widely repeated in the British press that Walter C. Langer felt he had to de-bunk this (See “The Mind of Adolf Hitler: the Secret Wartime Report,” Basic Books, N.Y.C. & London, 1972.)

In any case — this accusation is nowadays commonly misinterpreted as "carpet muncher" (i.e. cunnilinguist) and never was this particular accusation made against the Führer.

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#143

Post by Maple 01 » 22 Feb 2003, 13:30

Ewa, where's my pink uniform?
Goering's wearing it!

Anyone got colour photos? - It really existed

-Nick

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#144

Post by Geli » 23 Feb 2003, 01:23

My problem with R.M. Schultz's entire post is that it assumes that all of those sources were reliable. Also, historians always put their own spin on statements from witnesses. I've read books that contain accounts that are the total opposite of the information in this post, and they list the same people as sources!

Face it, Folks. There is no proof of anything. We will never know the truth about any of this.

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R.M. Schultz
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Evidence and reasoning please!

#145

Post by R.M. Schultz » 23 Feb 2003, 04:27

Please don't get me wrong, I presented my post as "findings" not "conclusions" meaning that, having looked over the sources and weighed them, I find these ideas credible and probable. You are quite right in saying that we will never know the truth in these matters the way that we can know the armament of the Battleship Bismarck, nor is there any evidence that we can check to prove a point, as for instance divers are now trying to determine whether the Bismarck was sunk or scuttled. All we are ever going to have in this matter is hearsay but that doesn't mean we can't for a reasonable informed opinion.

One reason why I posted my opinions on Hitler’s sex life is that I really am not very interested in it and thus might be less biased than some. However, since I had been paid to do some research into it, I felt that I was rather knowledgeable and thus might have something to say. (If I have any bias at all, it’s that I like Otto Strasser, which is why I clearly pointed it up when he was my source for something.)

Now — having done this I am actually curious as to whether my work is solid enough to withstand criticism.

When Scott Smith pointed up that “Hanfstaengl, Strasser, and Rauschning were ultimately Hitler's enemies,” that was a point worth addressing. But just saying that “you have a problem with my post” or that you’ve “read books that contain accounts that are the total opposite of the information in this post, and they list the same people as sources” really doesn’t further the discussion unless you cite the sources so that I can see for myself.

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#146

Post by Marcus » 23 Feb 2003, 11:15

Thanks to R.M. Schultz for breathing interesting & constructive new life to this old and at times pretty childish thread.

/Marcus

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#147

Post by The Mighty Sisto » 10 Mar 2003, 08:03

Obviously, Geli was Hitler's half-sister's daughter. Though some people say this isnt incest, to me it is, for Angela and Adolf had the same father, Alois. Also, Hitler's parents, Alois and Klara, were Uncle and Niece. From the Hitler family tree, it seems that there have been other family members who had married one another, though the family tree I have in my books are a little confusing.

All I can say is - Incest is BEST!

*The Mighty Sisto*

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#148

Post by sparkasse » 30 Mar 2003, 15:58

Well depends which girlfriend you're reffering to. He had a relationship with his niece Geli, another woman in his life was Maria Reiter, a lot younger than him but the most important was Eva Braun who became his wife. Some ppl say he was a lousy lover and he wasn't much interested in sex, but others say he was a pervert. The thing is we'll never know for sure.

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Hitler's testis

#149

Post by Bomar » 06 Aug 2003, 06:27

Hitler had only one testis. It has been verified on his half-charred body by soviet forensic pathologists after marshall jukov gave orders to unbury the corpses of hitler and eva braun that were found in the garden of the Chancellery in may 45 . The same report also said that Eva was pregnant. But of course nobody believes it because it is russian sourced.
If people do not want to believe what the Russians said it is their problem. On another hand, Hitler had no actual sexual relationship with his niece and she committed suicide because she was in love of Hitler's chauffeur. The guy was sacked by Hitler and then Geli took her life. It makes no doubt whatsoever for me that Hitler was not really interested in women because he had only one testis and was afraid of being ridiculed. His Doctor - Theo Morell- gave him during the war a lot of testosrone pills and other medecines meant to fight what is called by eurologists hypophasy (i.e. smallness of the prostate). Prostate is responsible for erection through the prostate nerve and is a major contributor to the making of semen. So Hitler had 2 problems on his hands : 1-one testis only 2- a small prostate... I do not want to pretend that his madness stemmed from those 2 physical attributes but I am pretty sure that had he enjoyed a normal sexual life the XXth century history would have been more joyful.....

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#150

Post by Durand » 06 Aug 2003, 14:52

Hallo,

Bomar wrote:
Hitler had only one testis. It has been verified on his half-charred body by soviet forensic pathologists after marshall jukov gave orders to unbury the corpses of hitler and eva braun that were found in the garden of the Chancellery in may 45 . The same report also said that Eva was pregnant. But of course nobody believes it because it is russian sourced.
If people do not want to believe what the Russians said it is their problem.
The issue is not as simple or conclusive as the statement suggests. There are also valid reasons to question the Soviet report. See the following:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... 6fba081234

Regards,

Durand

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