SA-Stabschef Viktor Lutze

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Tordenskiold
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Post by Tordenskiold » 25 Jan 2006 20:31

Hi Martin,

SA-Obergruppenführer Wilhelm Schepmann was "beauftragt mit der Führung der Geschäfte des Stabchefs der SA" 19.8.-9.11.1943, and then "(endgültig) Stabschef der SA" 9.11.1943-May 1945.

Regards,

Lars

Mark Costa
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Post by Mark Costa » 26 Jan 2006 00:54

The theory that Lutze was "assassinated" or ambushed is just fantasy on the part of some writers.

There are in fact two versions:

The official NSDAP version stated that on the afternoon of May 1, 1943 Lutze was travelling with his family on the autobahn on their way to Berlin. This was after picking up their son Victor Jr. who was on leave from the army. The version goes on to say that several pedestrians stepped in the path of Lutze's speeding car. The driver slammed on the brakes , hit some of the pedestrians and then proceeded to roll with great velocity down the road for more than 50 metres. Lutze was thrown against the windshield. He was rushed to a hospital where is was deemed that he was not hurt that bad. But a bloodclot developed overnight and he died on the operating table. His daughter Inge who was in the rear seat was killed instantly.

The real version is somewhat different: In fact Lutze and his daughter were in the BACK seat and his son Viktor Jr was actually driving with the chauffer sitting next to him. Viktor fell asleep at the wheel and ran over an embankment.

A photo of the entire Lutze family just a couple of hours before the accident can be seen in Jill Halcomb's book "The SA: A historical perspective" and it covers most of what I have written above.

Some of my other sources explain that the family had just picked up Viktor Jr as he was on leave and they were heading back to Berlin for a family get together. Viktor Jr was speeding when he fell asleep. Simply no controversy, just a fatal accident and nothing more than that. Had there been some conspiracy or a "blackmarket" trip, Goebbels would have mentioned it in his diary. In fact Goebbels discussed the fact that Hitler warned the Reichsleiters and Gauleiters right after the funeral, that their drivers were to obey the speed limits and drive under them in some cases. This dressing down was a direct result of the accident.

Viktor Jr was killed in action on June 20, 1944 in Normandy.
Paula Lutze (The Stabchef's wife) died in 1954.
Addi Lutze, the youngest son, was also killed in a car accident in 1957.

Mark Costa

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TePe
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Post by TePe » 26 Jan 2006 09:08

Hi Mark,

Very good and (to me) also some new info!

Thanks
TePe

Max Williams
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Post by Max Williams » 26 Jan 2006 10:19

Mark Costa wrote:The theory that Lutze was "assassinated" or ambushed is just fantasy on the part of some writers.

There are in fact two versions:

The official NSDAP version stated that on the afternoon of May 1, 1943 Lutze was travelling with his family on the autobahn on their way to Berlin. This was after picking up their son Victor Jr. who was on leave from the army. The version goes on to say that several pedestrians stepped in the path of Lutze's speeding car. The driver slammed on the brakes , hit some of the pedestrians and then proceeded to roll with great velocity down the road for more than 50 metres. Lutze was thrown against the windshield. He was rushed to a hospital where is was deemed that he was not hurt that bad. But a bloodclot developed overnight and he died on the operating table. His daughter Inge who was in the rear seat was killed instantly.

The real version is somewhat different: In fact Lutze and his daughter were in the BACK seat and his son Viktor Jr was actually driving with the chauffer sitting next to him. Viktor fell asleep at the wheel and ran over an embankment.

A photo of the entire Lutze family just a couple of hours before the accident can be seen in Jill Halcomb's book "The SA: A historical perspective" and it covers most of what I have written above.

Some of my other sources explain that the family had just picked up Viktor Jr as he was on leave and they were heading back to Berlin for a family get together. Viktor Jr was speeding when he fell asleep. Simply no controversy, just a fatal accident and nothing more than that. Had there been some conspiracy or a "blackmarket" trip, Goebbels would have mentioned it in his diary. In fact Goebbels discussed the fact that Hitler warned the Reichsleiters and Gauleiters right after the funeral, that their drivers were to obey the speed limits and drive under them in some cases. This dressing down was a direct result of the accident.

Viktor Jr was killed in action on June 20, 1944 in Normandy.
Paula Lutze (The Stabchef's wife) died in 1954.
Addi Lutze, the youngest son, was also killed in a car accident in 1957.

Mark Costa


Mark,
Thanks for this post; interesting stuff.
However, just a couple of questions....
Why do you say the second version is the real one? How do you know? Is there a police report of the accident or something similar, or do you base your statement on book sources?
Why do you suppose the son was driving when he was tired, especially when there was a fully competent chauffeur there. The chauffeur sat next to the son who was driving? It just doesn't sound right. The fact Goebbels mentioned that Hitler warned the Reichsleiter and Gauleiter that their drivers should obey the speed limits, makes me suspect Lutze's chauffeur was driving.
Max

Freiherr von Graff
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Lutze

Post by Freiherr von Graff » 26 Jan 2006 11:09

FINALLY!

Finally, someone is able to come up with something regarding the former Stabschef!

Thank you very much!

Mark Costa
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Post by Mark Costa » 26 Jan 2006 13:37

Max:

Jill Halcomb spoke directly with a close Lutze relative when obtaining the last photo of Lutze and his family. That family member related the actual details of the accident that varied from the official version -- mainly the seating arrangements and who was driving the car. The details of the how Lutze died (ie. bloodclot) were taken directly from the released medical statement by a Dr. Sommer -- this is also reference in Jill's book.

I can only speculate on why the son was driving. Maybe he wanted some time behind the wheel after being at the front for a while. My guess it that it was a combination of the two versions: Pedestrians stepped out in front of the car and the son being somewhat tired did not see them in time and went down an embankment. He may not actually have been fully asleep just tired and not paying attention.

Mark Costa

Max Williams
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Post by Max Williams » 26 Jan 2006 13:45

Thanks Mark.
Max.

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logibear64
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Interesting account of Lutze's death

Post by logibear64 » 28 Jan 2006 21:52

This excerpt is from page 32 of the Karl Wolf biography "Top Nazi" by Jochen Von Lang published by Enigma Books:


Image

Mark Costa
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Post by Mark Costa » 29 Jan 2006 04:10

Logibear:

This is a perfect example of what I am speaking about when I say that most writers continue to pull out very limited and unverifiable sources so do not know the true facts of the crash.

First of all --- Alcohol had nothing to the do with crash --- Lutze was not even driving the car.

Second --- Lutze may have been out scrounging for food because of rationing, but a few cartons of eggs is hardly dealing with the "black market" conspiracy.

Third --- There was never a plan to give the SA to Himmler. Although at first Hitler was thinking of Von Jagow, but gave up on the idea as he no longer wanted aristocratic members in governing positions of power. Wilhelm Schepmann was appointed acting Stabchef in June -- was made full Stabchef in August with the appointment date of November 9, 1943. Schepmann was hand picked by Bormann. The SA was clearly now in Bormann's court.

Mark Costa

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logibear64
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Post by logibear64 » 29 Jan 2006 05:11

I submitted this as only an alternative view of the event. It is not my own opinion one way or another. The author seems to have well researched the bio of Karl Wolf.
Unverified? Well the author v. Lang is quoting directly from Bormann's communiqe. The author was not accusing Lutze of being a blackmarketeer. Bormann's point was that Lutze was loaded down with rationed goods in quantities the average German could only dream of having. You inferred it was blackmarketing not the author!!!!
Was his son driving? I do not know. Again the author is quoting Bormann's directive. It is not clear whether he Bormann or the author ever saw the police accident report if it still exists. Do you have a copy of the Police report or a source for the same? If not, then every author can only guess as to what the real cause of the accident or accept the official Nazi version at face value. My own stance is I DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH. Until I read this passage I assumed that his son was driving and fell asleep at the wheel as has been repeated in numerous books and articles.

The interest in the author with Lutze is that Lutze was still disturbed over the 30th of June executions and when drunk publicly let those within earshot of his loathing of the SS.
Karl Wolff was frequently used as a go-between to help silence Lutze and other enfluential SS critics.

Again I did not submit this excerpt has a "case closed" opinion. It was just an alternative view. I do agree in general with you first statement in that many authors just quote other books rather than original research. So bad facts are recycled over and over again. I do not think this is the case with the "Top Nazi" (despite the stupid title) by Jochen V. Lang.

Phil

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logibear64
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pictures from Lutze's funeral

Post by logibear64 » 29 Jan 2006 05:20

US National Archive images:

Image


Image

Laurence Strong
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Re: SA-Stabschef Viktor Lutze

Post by Laurence Strong » 28 Apr 2012 02:12

Starting to feel like a necrophiliac reviving all these dead posts, however......building Lutze's standard
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Michael Miller
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Re: SA-Stabschef Viktor Lutze

Post by Michael Miller » 28 Apr 2012 15:42

This is the good kind of "necrophilia"- so thanks! I love when "oldies but goodies" are resurrected, especially since I've missed a lot of good ones over the past decade; it's a pleasure to cannibalize them. And this is a particularly interesting one.

~ Mike

JAR1978
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Re: SA-Stabschef Viktor Lutze

Post by JAR1978 » 26 Nov 2012 01:03

A few questions...

If he was really assassinated by UPA, has it happened because Himmler wanted to get rid of him as he was considered to be in opposition to Himmler and his SS?

Was Lutze simply set up by those around him (SS?) to become easy target for UPA, for example by being driven around without protection in the territory he did not really know that might have been overrun by UPA? Remember how Swierszczewski, Polish communist general was killed by UPA? He was simply offered on the plate to be eliminated.

But on the other hand, why someone like him would have been inspecting Ukraine? Was this one among his duties?

If the theory with the accident is true though, was the car speeding because the car was carrying the food that was rationed, to avoid being caught by someone?

How do you think?

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Requin Marteau
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SA-Stabschef Viktor Lutze Decorations

Post by Requin Marteau » 08 Apr 2015 10:19

Bonjour,

Need help to confirm the complete list of his décorations ?

- 1914 EK II,
- Fürstlich Lippisches KVK,
- Fürstlich Lippisches Ehrenkreuz 3. Kl. mit Schwertern,
- Schaumburg-Lippisches Kreuz für Treue Dienste am Band für Kämpfer,
- Fürstlich Lippisches Offiziersehrenkreuz mit Schwertern,
- Kriegsehrenkreuz (Lippe-Detmold ) für Heldenmütige Tat,
- 1914 EK I,
- Verwundetenabzeichen in Silber.
- Braunschweiger Ehrenzeichen 1931 (SA-Treffen 1931),
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,
- Österreichische Ehrenmedaille des Weltkrieges 1914-1918 mit Schwertern,
- Goldenes Parteiabzeichen der NSDAP,
- Deutsches Olympia-Ehrenzeichen 2. Kl.,
- Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell’Ordine dei Santi Maurizio e. Lazzaro,
- Ehrenabzeichen des DRK 1. Kl.,
- Reichskultursenat Abzeichen, ????
- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. März 1938,
- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938,
- KVK II mit Schwertern,
- KVK I mit Schwertern,
- Dienstauszeichnungen der NSDAP in Gold,
- Das Goldene Kreuz des Deutschen Ordens 1. Kl. mit Lorbeerkranz u. Schwertern (07.05.1943) posthum.


Crdl
Thierry
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