Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

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Ian Sayer
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Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

Postby Ian Sayer » 04 Apr 2006 16:16

Below is a well known Hoffmann photo which was taken at the Berghof 7th August 1937. This photo has been published many times in books and on the net.

http://www.thirdreichruins.com/berghofvisitors.htm

Toland has published it in his biography of Hitler and Angela Lambert mentions it (but hasn't included the photo) in her recent biography of Eva Braun.

However, although the main individuals are correctly identified Toland states that Eva is the fourth from the left in the middle row, Lambert says Eva 'sits in the front row of the group photograph looking, not sad, but decidedly wistful'

In Joachimsthaler's 'Last Days of Hitler' there is a short bio on Marion (sometimes referred to as Marianne).

'Marianne Schönmann, nee Petzl, born 19th December 1899 in Vienna. Daughter of opera star Maria Petzl whom Hitler admired from his time in Vienna. Through her acquaintance with Erna Gröpke, who married Heinrich Hoffmann, she met Hitler and was his frequent guest at the Obersalzberg 1935-1944. Here she met and became a friend o Eva Braun. Married Fritz Schönmann August 1937. Hitler guest at wedding. Committed suicide in Munich on 17th March 1981 aged 81'


I would like to identify the people in this group once and for all and would therefore appreciate any assistance.

First of all I think Joachimsthaler is wrong. Marion appears to have married a Herr Theissen. I have not been able to trace his first name or anything else about him. Marion became Marion Theissen.

Below are the names of those in the photo but I would particularly appreciate any input on which is Eva and which is Gretl. They were both very similar but Gretl was supposed to have more of a 'heart shaped face'. If that is true then its probably Gretl on the floor.


Back Row LTR: Dr.Morell, Unidentified 1, Unidentified 2, Hitler, Probably Marion's mother Maria Schönmann, Possibly Theissen's mother Frau Theissen.

Middle Row LTR: Hoffmann, Hanni Morell, Erna Hoffmann, Eva Braun, Frau Dreesen ( wife of the owner of the Hotel Dreesen), Possibly Herta Schneider,

Front Row LTR: Unidentified 3, Marion Schönmann, Theissen, Gretl Braun.


I guess it might make sense if Unidentifieds 1 and 2 were Dreesen and Marion's father but ....

Any help gratefully received.

Many thanks
Ian
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Deine-Zukunft
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Postby Deine-Zukunft » 04 Apr 2006 21:47

Hitler look just like ordinary quest and man in the middle looks like king.

Max Williams
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Postby Max Williams » 05 Apr 2006 08:39

Ian,
Eva is definitely fourth from left at rear, standing. Gretl is kneeling at front right.
Max.

Ian Sayer
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Postby Ian Sayer » 05 Apr 2006 11:05

Thanks Max. I thought that was probably correct
Best
Ian

Max Williams
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Postby Max Williams » 05 Apr 2006 11:26

Although they were very similar in appearance, Gretl was more attractive!
Max.

mjölnir
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Postby mjölnir » 05 Apr 2006 15:14

Hello Ian Sayer!
I have look in the book "Hitlers Liste" from Joachimsthaler. There he said that Marianne Schönmann lived in her youth in the house of his aunt, who was maried with Mr. Theissen.

In this book he describes your pic. It was taken on august 7th, 1937, in Munich (Pienzenauer Str. 31). Not at the Berghof!
He begins with the front row (from left to right):
Sofie Stark, Marianne Schönmann, Fritz Schönmann, Gretl Braun

2nd row:
Heinrich Hoffmann, Mrs. Morell, Erna Hoffmann, Eva Braun, Mrs. Diesbach, Dr. Theo Morell, Herta Schneider, unknown, Dr. Helmut Scheiber, Hitler, unknown, Maria Almas-Dietrich (art dealer from Munich)

mjölnir

Ian Sayer
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Postby Ian Sayer » 07 Apr 2006 14:39

Hello Mjolnir,
Thanks very much for that. It has helped a lot. I think the Dr. Helmut Scheiber is Helmut Schrieber (aka Kalanag) who was Hitler's magician.
What I don't quite inderstand at the moment is whether Marianne married Fritz Schönmann in 1937 or Herr Theissen! Some reports say Schönmann and some say Theissen. It looke to me that the man sitting next to Marianne was her husband rather than , say, her father-in-law, so is he Herr Theissen or Fritz Schönmann. I guess he probably has to be one of the two.
I have the I think the woman standing next to Maria Almas-Dietrich is a relative of Marianne's. I thought it might be her mother but , on reflection she seems possibly too young.
Joachimsthaler's reference to Marianne living with his aunt who was married to Theissen is interesting but it has made me even more confused!
I have the woman standing behind Marianne as Frau Dreesen (wife of the hotel owner) but Joachimsthaler has her down as a Frau Diesbach!
Here are two more pics taken at the wedding and a couple of others with Marianne. The one with Schwarz says on the back'Nice isn't it- A good one for the 'divorce box''
Can anyone help in resolving these questions please
Thanks
Ian
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Ian Sayer
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Postby Ian Sayer » 07 Apr 2006 14:52

Here they are
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Max Williams
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Postby Max Williams » 07 Apr 2006 16:56

The large photo of the blonde with Hoffmann....that is not Marianne Schönmann. It is the same woman that stands next to Hitler's left shoulder and also on the right with Eva Braun (in the long bathing robe).
Max.

Ian Sayer
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Postby Ian Sayer » 07 Apr 2006 17:33

Max,
Yes I realise that. She is also the woman standing next to Maria (the art dealer in the group shot). She is the one I think is a relative of Marianne. I thought at one time maybe her mother but ,upon reflection, she looks too young. Any ideas?
Ian

Max Williams
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Postby Max Williams » 07 Apr 2006 18:01

Sorry, she's a new one on me.
Max.

DennisW
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Re: Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

Postby DennisW » 17 Mar 2011 16:50

Perhaps the woman between Hitler and Maria Almas-Dietrich is Dietrich's daughter Mimi?

Ian Sayer
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Re: Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

Postby Ian Sayer » 17 Mar 2011 17:12

Maybe Dennis. Have you ever seen a photo of her?

gschon14620
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Re: Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

Postby gschon14620 » 15 Apr 2011 21:20

I have read an excerpt in Arthur Mitchell's 2007 book: Hitler's Mountain: the Fuhrer, Obersalzberg and the American Occupation of.... which states that Marion Schonemann is the wife of a Munich contractor, who was an Austrian. My name is Schonemann and my father was from Gothenberg, Sweden. So I've been told, my father's great great great grandfather, Wilhelm, immigrated to Gothenberg, from Muncih in 1835 (as relayed by my cousins in Gothenberg about 2 weeks ago). I never knew my father but, my mother told me as a child that my father's sister, Marion Schonemann was a good friend of Eva Braun and was married to one of the richest men in Germany.

By pure chance, I found that famous photo "Marion Schonemann's Wedding" in a history book at our local community college library, here in Columbia, Maryland, about 1999, while doing research for an economics paper. It peaked my curiosity and I half-heartedly began learning how to use the internet and its search engines. As the search capabilities became more efficient I would periodically pose the name Marion Schonemann. Geoff Walden's website then appeared a few years ago and I finally ended up writing to him and telling him my story. Mr. Walden had been away on active duty for awhile but, he did eventually respond. I again thank him for his kindness in responding to me. However; his response did not correspond to my mother's story. Mr. Walden states that Marion Schonemann, nee Peltz, only became Schonemann by marriage to Fritz Schonemann. Sometimes the name is spelled: Schonmann or Schoenemann. The college library book however, referred to him as Herr Thiessen.

When I looked-up Herr Thiessen I had no luck at all. When I looked-up Fritz Thiessen (or Thyssen) it does refer me to a rich Munich industrialist, originally Austrian. Unfortunately for me this guy was Prescott Bush's friend, who was tied directly to Adolf Hitler, whose wife's name was Amelie. There was no information about a Fritz Schonemann, Schoenemann, Schonmann that I have been able to find but, I'm still looking.

Arthur Mitchell's book refers to Marion Schonemann as having a relationship with Hitler around the same time as Eva Braun, and that "Frau Schonemann may have been relegated to the back row by Eva". There was mention of Marion being quite outspoken and that she and Hitler verbally sparred at times. It went on to say that Marion and Eva were friends and that Marion helped Eva decorate the buildings at the Berghof. I believe that frau refers to a married woman and fraulein is a Miss. Mitchell has more information in his book but, I could not get to those pages because the online version is only a preview. I will have to buy the book to get to the rest of his information about her, mentioned on pages 60 and 61. The above information is found on page 40.

I am as confused as anyone about this and would love to get to the bottom of it. I welcome anyone's input with any further information that you may have. I have found some of my surviving relatives in Gothenberg and will begin questioning them about any information as to whether Marion Schonemann was related to us. My father has one surviving brother, quite old and reclusive, who lives on the outskirts of Gothenberg. He doesn't even have a telephone so someone will have to drive out there to tell him that I have contacted them.

Regards

Ian Sayer
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Re: Marion Schönmann's Berghof Wedding 1937 Photo ID

Postby Ian Sayer » 16 Apr 2011 17:05

Hello gschon 14620

I appreciate that this is quite a complex story but I do believe that Marion only became a Schoenmann by marrying Fritz in 1937. I think she lived in Munich post war and she committed suicide there in 1981. I think that would be a good place for you to start your enquiries. As you have already noticed she was friendly with quite a few of Hitler's inner circle and , of course, most of Eva's.

Good luck

Ian


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