Reich Wine?

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Ace___
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Reich Wine?

#1

Post by Ace___ » 26 Apr 2017, 23:59

Hi guys, acquired this at a military fair recently. I was reliably informed it was genuine but you guys might tell me differently? Am just trying to find out as much as possible about it which is proving tough. It's obviously from the Ingelheim am Rhein area in Rhineland-Palatinate (which was Germany's second largest wine growing region). I can't seem to find much info on the company that made it though..or how common/rare it is. Also I've been trying to locate the castle/church that is depicted on the label and I think it may be Ehrenfels Castle? Could be wrong though. Was this brewed specifically for the Wehrmacht? If anyone can shed any light on it that would be fantastic

Thanks

Ace___
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Re: Reich Wine?

#2

Post by Ace___ » 27 Apr 2017, 00:00

Image


Ace___
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Re: Reich Wine?

#3

Post by Ace___ » 27 Apr 2017, 00:00

Image

nagantino
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Re: Reich Wine?

#4

Post by nagantino » 27 Apr 2017, 00:25

Can't help wth your search but it's a lovely label. The condition of the thing is great, but, it must have been kept under perfect conditions o have survived like that. There's always someone ready to fake up German WW11 stuff on any kind and it would be so easy to print a label.i hope your find is genuine cos it's still a lovely object.

Ace___
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Re: Reich Wine?

#5

Post by Ace___ » 27 Apr 2017, 11:18

It does look a little bit too good doesn't it, and as you say so easy to fake I guess. I'm hoping there is a wine expert out there who may be able to help. The seller also gave me the two photos in the first pic..said it doesn't show the actually bottle of wine and if you look closely at the label on the bottle in the photo I don't think it looks like the label that's on the actual bottle but the bottle design is exactly the same. Was hoping someone here had seen one before. I've obviously googled the name and all I could find were three links to auction sites where this type of bottle was estimated at anywhere between £100-£450, two of the sites were UK based auction houses and one was Russian. I agree, is an interesting piece that you don't often see. The cork is absolutely solid in the bottle, no way that's coming out...not that I'd be tempted to try it..must taste awful now haha

Westland
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Re: Reich Wine?

#6

Post by Westland » 27 Apr 2017, 13:48

There was a bottle of that wine sold in Birmingham in the UK last November. I don't know how much it was sold for but your bottle does look authentic. This is a photograph of the one sold here.
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Ace___
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Re: Reich Wine?

#7

Post by Ace___ » 27 Apr 2017, 14:14

Yes I did find that link, I think 2 or 3 bottles were sold along with a couple of Reich era beers. I even signed up to the website site but you had to deposite money before you could see how much stuff sold for..which I wasn't prepared to do, but I may do at a later date. I guess if it's been sold via an auction house then there is a greater chance of it's authenticity being genuine as I presume the auction house wouldn't of sold it if they couldn't tell whether it was genuine or not? Does certainly seem like the real deal but know way of knowing for sure yet

Knouterer
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Re: Reich Wine?

#8

Post by Knouterer » 27 Apr 2017, 17:14

"Wehrmacht-Abfüllung": "Bottled for the Wehrmacht". The text stamped across the label says "Siegesfeier Frankreichfeldzug 1940", indicating that it was to be drunk at a celebration of the victorious campaign in France. Makes you wonder why it wasn't consumed? A small gesture of resistance by antinazi soldiers?

A more likely explanation is perhaps that it didn't taste very good, 1939 was an awful wine year, it rained on the German vineyards for six straight weeks in July-August.

Or perhaps somebody wanted to save it for the day of final victory (Endsieg).
Last edited by Knouterer on 27 Apr 2017, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

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Prosper Vandenbroucke
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Re: Reich Wine?

#9

Post by Prosper Vandenbroucke » 27 Apr 2017, 17:17

Hello,
I.M.H.O the drawing depicted the Burgkirche and the Malakoff Towers:
http://www.burgenwelt.org/deutschland/i ... rstein.htm
Kindly regards from Belgium
Prosper :wink: :wink:

ManfredV
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Re: Reich Wine?

#10

Post by ManfredV » 27 Apr 2017, 20:14

I´m a little bit confused about this label: "Rheinpfalz", "Ober-Ingelheim" and "Königsbacher". Königsbach is a winegrower community in Palatinate. (Rhein)Pfalz was and is Germany`s second largest wine region. But Oberingelheim is a part of Ingelheim which is a part of Rheinhessen, which is Germany´s largest wine region.
Is it a wine from Königsbach (Palatinate) but filled in bottles in Oberingelheim?

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Re: Reich Wine?

#11

Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 30 Apr 2017, 08:24

The font of 'Königsbacher' looks suspeciously like Helvetica, which was designed in 1957. There were other, similar fonts designed earlier, but consider finding the exact font.

Another thing to note is that the label on the bottle on the period photograph is not the same.

Ace___
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Re: Reich Wine?

#12

Post by Ace___ » 26 May 2017, 10:58

Thank you all for the help with this..

Knouterer - thank you for your response, extremely interesting about the "Siegesfeier Frankreichfeldzug 1940” showing that it was to be consumed after the ‘victorious campaign in France’. Even more interesting that 1939 was a poor wine year. Maybe your right and it tasted awful and was just left.

Prosper Vandenbroucke – I did initially think that maybe the image on the front of the label depicted the Burgkirche and the Malakoff Towers as that is probably the main historic attraction in the town. But then there are lots of fortifications along the Rhine in that area.

ManfredV – Label is slightly confusing but Palatinate & (Rhein)Pfalz are right next to eachother, maybe were more closely intertwined in the 1930s? What I’m after is a snapshot of the different vineyards in Palatinate/RheinPfalz from around 1939, but so far has proved difficult to find. I guess id have to contact a archives/records office in Mainz to see if they could help shed any light on the Konigsbacher brand of wine. Yes you could be right maybe the wine was from Königsbach (Palatinate) but bottled in Oberingelheim……but I would of thought that if it was from Königsbach then it wouldn’t have a picture of the Burgkirche on it? I did find out that Königsbacher is German for "from the Königsbach" (from the King's Brook). Koblenzer Brauerei (formerly Königsbacher Brauerei GmbH & Co KG) is a brewery in Koblenz, I wonder if there is any link with the Koblenzer brewery, although from what I can gather it brewed beer rather than wine?

Christian Ankerstjerne – Good idea with the font. I so far haven’t been able to match it, but if I could pin it down it may help finding out more about the wine

Knouterer
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Re: Reich Wine?

#13

Post by Knouterer » 26 May 2017, 21:01

For the French wine growers, the year 1939 was equally bad - not everywhere perhaps, but certainly in Alsace - and some remarked afterwards that they would have been unable to get rid of that vintage if it hadn't been for the German occupying forces, who were not so discerning and bought the stuff anyway. As you can read in this entertaining book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wine-War-Franc ... ne+and+war
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Seppo Koivisto
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Re: Reich Wine?

#14

Post by Seppo Koivisto » 27 May 2017, 14:13

To me the castles on the label look like Burg Maus and Burg Katz.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 78020).jpg
Big wine houses probably bought wine from small producers also from other regions, but it was maybe not very good wine, as it has no German wine classification like Qualitätswein mit Prädikat.

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Re: Reich Wine?

#15

Post by history1 » 28 May 2017, 10:22

The only sure thing IMHO is that there was already in 1911 a vine trader Carl Pauli in Ingelheim.
http://www.dilibri.de/rlb/periodical/pageview/89874
Today it´s only an empty plot:
https://goo.gl/maps/g9BQimJaEuq
I also would like to know why there is a different font in the "Wehrmacht-Abfüllung" compared to the vinemaker/-trader details? Apart from the fact that it should read "Wehrmachtsabfüllung", at least following nowadays German grammar, why did they print it different? Does this make any sense? I can understand a different colour but not a different font.
And don´t be afraid to open the bottle, find a sommelier in your region and invite him to make a blind tasting. Of course you do NOT tell anything about the wine or the bottle inscriptions before!

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