What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

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ShadowWave
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What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by ShadowWave » 17 Apr 2019 20:41

Hitler notoriously refused to give interviews to Jews or even answer Jewish lawyers in court. He also refused to enter negotiations with the SU until Litvinov was replaced. Would Hitler have been willing to shake hands and meet with a Jewish diplomat or was he too disgusted with Jews in general to do so?

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by Stephan » 17 Apr 2019 21:32

I have a vague memory there was something such with a Finnish representant. Finnish Jews meeting official german representants did happened, of this Im sure. Including several (3 or possibly even 4) did got Iron Cross - even if I think they all refused to take it. BUT germans, knowing these were Jews, if nothing else so by their names, did send high ranking representatives to give the medals.

OK, you really ask about Hitler specifically. As said, I have a weak memory this happened, but cant corroborate it in any way, not even by a more sure memory glimpse. It will perhaps come later, after a good nights sleep.

Ps. This with Litwinov was not only because he was a Jew, or at least of Jewish ancestry. The point is also, he was antinazist, and preferred peace or at least, peace-alike conditions, over open war and violence, as far as I know.

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wm
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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by wm » 25 Apr 2019 19:02

The refusal to answer Jewish lawyers was more like trial tactics and grandstanding, it doesn't prove much.

Litvinov was replaced as a sign of Stalin's goodwill. Hitler didn't take a direct part in the negotiations anyway, this is why it's the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Germany and the USSR negotiated (in secret) and traded even during the Litvinov era.

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by john2 » 25 Apr 2019 23:55

For what it's worth Hitler shook Deusterberg's (spelling?) hand. He was the leader of the stahhelm a rightwing party but he had a Jewish grandfather which I believe made him a mischling. Hitler was aware of this but worked with him anyway. This was certainly different though then working with a full Jew.

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wm
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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by wm » 26 Apr 2019 00:20

Hitler with his dear Jewish friend Rosa Bernile Nienau:
_104324184_207359e2-26ac-4e1b-b47b-400e4b1623ed.jpg
_104304564_bfd316f2-aede-4331-9bc6-295c38e73c9e.jpg
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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by Stephan » 26 Apr 2019 19:09

From the link: "Rosa did not survive the war, either. She died of polio, aged 17, in a hospital in Munich in 1943, a decade after her first meeting with Hitler.".

So she apparently still had some protection from Hitler even after the contacts were broken. She remained free, even got hospital care. Possibly the doctors didnt gave their 100% effort, but that is just a guess. It was fully possible to die in polio, especielly if they hadnt not access to iron lungs. I dont know when iron lungs become common. Still, its apparent she had some protection and was treated decently although Jewish.

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wm
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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by wm » 27 Apr 2019 15:15

Her father was German, and she was raised as a German - such marriages were considered privileged and weren't deported.
About 12,000 mixed marriages survived thanks to that.

In the heavily bombed Germany, among tens of thousands of wounded civilians and masses of wounded front line soldiers, a dying from polio girl was just statistics and should have expected much.

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by Sarge3525 » 12 Jun 2019 14:14

Is Hitler's hate of Jews in private even fully verified? It's an uncomfortable subject because it obviously doesn't fit the narrative of the Hitler character in politics (who was a rageing antisemite), but it merits being examined.

Goebbels seem to have been seriously antisemitic, or at least he became one later on. But a number of events show that Hitler treated Jews that he valued as friends or loved ones, well. Hitler's Jewish doctor (that tried to save his mother) was one. Hitler personally gave him immunity in Germany. The little Jewish girl Bernile Nienau is another example. Hitler knew she was Jewish and loved her like a daughter he never had. Both these individuals the Nazis tried to send to camps or even kill, and were protected by Hitler.

For one, I believe all evidence shows that Hitler's antisemitism was not real and only for politics. Whilst he may have criticised the so called "international Jews", he had nothing against German/Austrian Jews that were fully integrated and did not show a hate of Germany. I believe there is also the anecdote of one of Hitler's favorite school teacher being a Jew (who he praised for his brilliant lecturing in Mein Kampf).

I believe Hitler may have been a much more complex individual than was thought before.
I believe he was capable of insane levels of brutality, such as giving the German Army full freedom when it cames to war crimes on the Eastern Front (and even rounding up anyone, including mostly Jews, which were potential partisans and shooting them), but at the same time harboring no hateful emotions at the personal level regarding individual Jews, and even loving some Jewish individuals as human beings.

It is true that this narrative is disturbing because then how is the Shoah rationalized? I can only point to expert psychologists who could explain this.
Either the Shoah was undertaken mostly by the Hitler underlings without his full knowledge, or Hitler had some sort of disorder similar to Stalin where he could order the death of millions whilst loving certain individuals.

Too bad serious psychological appraisals or character analysis of Hitler have not been done (only biased ones really).

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by AdolfDettmer » 13 Jun 2019 21:19

Sarge3525 wrote:
12 Jun 2019 14:14
Is Hitler's hate of Jews in private even fully verified? It's an uncomfortable subject because it obviously doesn't fit the narrative of the Hitler character in politics (who was a rageing antisemite), but it merits being examined.

Goebbels seem to have been seriously antisemitic, or at least he became one later on. But a number of events show that Hitler treated Jews that he valued as friends or loved ones, well. Hitler's Jewish doctor (that tried to save his mother) was one. Hitler personally gave him immunity in Germany. The little Jewish girl Bernile Nienau is another example. Hitler knew she was Jewish and loved her like a daughter he never had. Both these individuals the Nazis tried to send to camps or even kill, and were protected by Hitler.

For one, I believe all evidence shows that Hitler's antisemitism was not real and only for politics. Whilst he may have criticised the so called "international Jews", he had nothing against German/Austrian Jews that were fully integrated and did not show a hate of Germany. I believe there is also the anecdote of one of Hitler's favorite school teacher being a Jew (who he praised for his brilliant lecturing in Mein Kampf).

I believe Hitler may have been a much more complex individual than was thought before.
I believe he was capable of insane levels of brutality, such as giving the German Army full freedom when it cames to war crimes on the Eastern Front (and even rounding up anyone, including mostly Jews, which were potential partisans and shooting them), but at the same time harboring no hateful emotions at the personal level regarding individual Jews, and even loving some Jewish individuals as human beings.

It is true that this narrative is disturbing because then how is the Shoah rationalized? I can only point to expert psychologists who could explain this.
Either the Shoah was undertaken mostly by the Hitler underlings without his full knowledge, or Hitler had some sort of disorder similar to Stalin where he could order the death of millions whilst loving certain individuals.

Too bad serious psychological appraisals or character analysis of Hitler have not been done (only biased ones really).


There is a 0% chance Hitler was unaware about what was occurring regarding the Holocaust.

Occam’s razor often works best.

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by wm » 11 Jul 2019 23:35

Hitler hated many people but certainly believed only the Jews were worthless, genetically the least valuable people around.

We don't know why he did it but the Holocaust brought tangible benefits to Germany so it's quite probable it wasn't about hate - he simply like on a sinking ship threw the least valuable "goods" overboard first.

By that time he had already sacrificed up to 300,000 mentally ill and otherwise unperfect German and non-German people because they were a deadweight on Germany's economy, and millions of Soviet POWs - another deadweight, so the decision to sacrifice more was an easy decision for him.

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by Futurist » 12 Jul 2019 07:01

What were these tangible benefits? Reducing the pressure on Germany's food supply? What else?

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wm
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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by wm » 12 Jul 2019 08:05

It wasn't mere reducing the pressure, in the Great War the Germans were literally dying from hunger (it's estimated up to 700,00 actually died), there were food riots all across Germany in 1915/1916. In 1917 rations amounted to deadly 1,000 calories daily per person.

According to Toze, the Nazis expected a similar development in 1941 (it didn't quite happen because of bumper-crops in Eastern Europe, but it was bad anyway) so actually reducing the pressure was a matter of survival of an entire nation.

The other benefit was furniture and all the everyday items needed for millions of bombed-out Germans. Germany stopped production of consumer products so confiscated Jewish property was the only reliable source of them.
Similarly, the Nazis were seriously afraid the bombings would lead to a mass collapse of morale. The Jewish property probably partially averted that.

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Re: What would Hitler have been willing to meet with a Jewish diplomat?

Post by HistPolity » 15 Jul 2019 18:16

Luftwaffe Field Marshall Erhard Milch was half-Jewish (father's side)

I imagine Hitler had to meet and deal with him due to his involvement in overseeing aircraft production.

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