Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

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meghtitan
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by meghtitan » 02 Dec 2021 12:14

I remember our very good friend Adam, a late emigrant (Spätaussiedler) from Poland, German family history, from the city of Wroclaw / Breslau.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by George L Gregory » 04 Dec 2021 18:04

meghtitan wrote:
02 Dec 2021 12:14
I remember our very good friend Adam, a late emigrant (Spätaussiedler) from Poland, German family history, from the city of Wroclaw / Breslau.
Were his family members of Polish ethnicity and German ethnicity? If he had Polish ancestors, did any live in Germany during the 1930s?

Or, do you mean he was ethnically German and was born in a city which was then under Polish rule?

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Hans1906
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by Hans1906 » 05 Dec 2021 03:06

The statement comes from my pen.

Our friend was born in Poland in 1947, father and mother of German descent, for whatever reasons, they remained in Poland after 1945.

In the 1980s our friend moved to Germany with his Polish wife.
His broken German language was a problem, the man was mobbed for it, again and again.
Today he lives again in Wroclaw, a wanderer between two worlds, nowhere at home, and nowhere really arrived, a German/Polish fate.

A good man, but we lost track of each other.
It is understandable, that someone feels German, but can only communicate in a broken way.
Each of us makes the best of his life, however, that should be accepted.


Hans
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by George L Gregory » 05 Dec 2021 16:28

What year was the turning point for ethnic Poles living in Germany? Was it 1938?

meghtitan
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by meghtitan » 16 Dec 2021 08:48

I am guessing these are for the Austrian part of Austro-Hungary (ie excludes Hungary).
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by ManfredV » 16 Dec 2021 16:53

"Polish minority in Germany"?
Ethnic Poles / polisch mother tongue speaking people from Eastern parts of Prussia who went to other areas of Germanybefore 1914? Those who had a german /prussian passport?
Or people from Poland (after 1918) with polish passport and polish ethinicity but living in Germany?
German speaking people from (after 1918) Poland with polish passports?
"Ruhrpolen"?
Or those guys from Silesia, East and West Prussia, "Posen". who were both polish and german. Those "mixed ones" who didn't care for such question "to which state or ethnicy do I belong"?
Central Europe and especially Germany never had such clear borders between ethnicies and states. Its much more complicated.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by videshik2 » 29 Dec 2021 12:50

I wonder, were Reich citizens of non-German ancestry allowed to be members of the Hitler Youth before 1939?192.168.1.1
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wm
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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by wm » 30 Dec 2021 14:41

videshik2 wrote:
29 Dec 2021 12:50
I wonder, were Reich citizens of non-German ancestry allowed to be members of the Hitler Youth before 1939?
I don't think such a thing existed - Reich citizens of non-German ancestry.
In Nazi Germany, there were two officially recognized minorities - Polish and Danish and both were granted some rights. Additionally, in 1937 both Poland and Germany declared some rights as mandatory including protection from denationalization and from denying any rights and privileges granted to Germans.

I don't know about the Hitler Youth but I suppose the Poles were allowed there. In 1940 after Germany annexed parts of Polish territories lots of children in the local Hitler Youth didn't speak German.
The Hitler Youth and The Polish Scouting and Guiding Association cooperated to some degree, their members visited each other (btw the Hiter Youth existed in the Second Polish Republic too).

The Poles didn't have to take part in the "Landjahr" (whatever that really was) at the express request of the Union of Poles in Germany. Although a similar request concerning the Arbeitsdienst was rejected.

The idea that the Nazis hated Poles is simply wrong (excluding German borderlands where the hate and contempt were real).
For example in the thirties in Germany, the collected works (in four volumes) of Józef Piłsudski (admired by Hitler and even Goebbels) were published (including a "marshal edition" for the top Nazis) - prefaced by Göring himself.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by ManfredV » 01 Jan 2022 19:25

"Reich citizens of non-German ancestry"
Germany has minorities of other mother tongues: Danish and Sorbian. Before 1945 Kashubians and Masurians (of course it is disputed if Masurians were an etnicity of their own or a polish sub-group).
Prussia had (especially since Poland was diveded in late 18th century) a large polish speaking / polish etnicity population in its eastern parts. Many of them moved to Ruhr for working.
Germany always was a country of immigration and emigration. Many Germans have ancestors that immigrated for centuries. Germans at all are a mixture of mainly germanic, celtic and slavonian roots.
Did you know that during "turkish wars" in 17th and 18th century many ottoman POW were brought to Austria, Bavaria and Baden? Many of them stayed there and married german girls...
In 1930ies Germany had many "Reichs Citizens" who had polish etnic roots. They ore their ancestors came in late 19th / early 20th century from eastern parts of Prussia. Some of them felt german and assimilated, others kept their polish identity.
in 1930ies Germany had both Reichs citizens of polish origin / etnicity and polish citizens(who emigrated for working or other reasons)

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by RandJS » 01 Jan 2022 19:55

Just adding two cents:

Volksliste Class 1 was Full German: These people belonged to pre-war German Associations and were fully German and had Reichdeutsche identity cards. Class 2 was 50% German: Had blue identity cards and had a “positive attitude” toward Germany. Class 3 was German by name, origin or ancestry, and holding green identity papers. They were unreliable soldiers. Class 4 was “Germanic” rather than German and held yellow identity papers. They were the least trusted group. There were 783,000 Polish Volksliste.

RandJS

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by ManfredV » 01 Jan 2022 21:03

Volksliste was for people in occupied Poland, not for Germany before war started.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by RandJS » 01 Jan 2022 22:30

Thanks MandredV, i came in late and misssed the subject of the discussion. :oops:

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by George L Gregory » 02 Jan 2022 10:39

wm wrote:
30 Dec 2021 14:41
The idea that the Nazis hated Poles is simply wrong (excluding German borderlands where the hate and contempt were real).
Hmmm… so why did Hitler write that any attempt at Germanising Poles would bring about a racial weakening of the German people? As well as describing the Slavs as an inferior race.

The Nazis despised Slavs including Poles.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by George L Gregory » 02 Jan 2022 10:41

RandJS wrote:
01 Jan 2022 19:55
Just adding two cents:

Volksliste Class 1 was Full German: These people belonged to pre-war German Associations and were fully German and had Reichdeutsche identity cards. Class 2 was 50% German: Had blue identity cards and had a “positive attitude” toward Germany. Class 3 was German by name, origin or ancestry, and holding green identity papers. They were unreliable soldiers. Class 4 was “Germanic” rather than German and held yellow identity papers. They were the least trusted group. There were 783,000 Polish Volksliste.

RandJS
Where are you getting the idea that ‘Germanic’ was used?
Category I: Volksdeutsche (German > "Ethnically German") —Persons of German descent who had engaged themselves in favour of the Reich before 1939.

Category II: Deutschstämmige (German > "of German Descent") — Persons of German descent who had remained passive.

Category III: Eingedeutschte (German > "Voluntarily Germanised") — Indigenous persons considered by the Nazis as partly Polonised (mainly Silesians and Kashubs); refusal to join this list often led to deportation to a concentration camp.

Category IV: Rückgedeutschte (German > "Forcibly Germanised") — Persons of Polish nationality considered "racially valuable", but who resisted Germanisation.

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Re: Polish minority in Germany in the 1930s

Post by George L Gregory » 02 Jan 2022 10:52

ManfredV wrote:
01 Jan 2022 19:25
"Reich citizens of non-German ancestry"
Germany has minorities of other mother tongues: Danish and Sorbian. Before 1945 Kashubians and Masurians (of course it is disputed if Masurians were an etnicity of their own or a polish sub-group).
Prussia had (especially since Poland was diveded in late 18th century) a large polish speaking / polish etnicity population in its eastern parts. Many of them moved to Ruhr for working.
Reich citizens included non-Germans who were considered to be of ‘related blood’ (kindred blood) and Poles and Danes were used as examples of racial minorities living in Germany who were of related blood.
Germany always was a country of immigration and emigration. Many Germans have ancestors that immigrated for centuries. Germans at all are a mixture of mainly germanic, celtic and slavonian roots.
Well all countries and groups are descended from a mixture of tribes, but Germans are a Germanic people and came about for the most part by Germanic tribes. Celtic people settled all over Europe and were around before the Germanic people so it’s no wonder that they settled in parts of modern-day Germany. Most of the Slavic ancestry came from the eastern parts of Germany.
Did you know that during "turkish wars" in 17th and 18th century many ottoman POW were brought to Austria, Bavaria and Baden? Many of them stayed there and married german girls...
Source please.
In 1930ies Germany had many "Reichs Citizens" who had polish etnic roots. They ore their ancestors came in late 19th / early 20th century from eastern parts of Prussia. Some of them felt german and assimilated, others kept their polish identity.
in 1930ies Germany had both Reichs citizens of polish origin / etnicity and polish citizens(who emigrated for working or other reasons)
Whilst it’s true that the Nazis acknowledged that both Germans and Poles belonged to the same race, they still thought that the Poles were racially inferior to the Germans and intended to clear the Polish territories of Poles to make way for the German settlers.

The Nazis wanted to Germanise Poland and to get rid of the vast majority of ethnic Poles.

The Nazis did everything that they could to separate Germans and Poles. They even changed the age for Poles to get married to other Poles!

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