Truth is stranger than fiction

[Galahad]

I've lately been studying terrorist organizations of the past, and in the course of it I came across something that is incredibly improbable, but nonetheless true.
During WW2, Avram Stern, leader of the infamous Stern Gang of terrorists in Palestine, tried to arrange a pact with the Third Reich. He wanted to establish a Jewish Fascist state in Palestine--with himself as Fuhrer, of course--and was willing to become an ally of Germany against the British and Arabs in exchange for German support. He proposed this state to be used as a national home for European Jews, thus removing them from Europe.
This somewhat unusual proposal went nowhere, so he tried again, working through the Italians, and kept trying until the British finally reached their limit and killed him.
How's that for a truth stranger than any fiction could possibly be?

[Andy Krause]

lol, that is pretty ironic

[Timo]

It sure beats the Samoan Nazi Party

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Very interresting - so he actually wanted to create Isreal (more or less), and the British stopped it, and then continued his doing? - that is ironic, as DNF said...!

[Ovidius]

If I do remember correctly, I had opened in the old forum a thread about Jews in Hitler's Army, SS and Hitlerjugend. There were about 77 Jewish officers in Hitler's military forces(pure Jews, not Mischlinge), and some more conscripted soldiers. The total number of Mischlinge(men of mixed Jewish ancestry, who were not considered Jews) fighting for Hitler went up to 150,000, according to some estimations.

There were and still are people of Hebrew ethnic origin who supported and still support Hitler's cause.

These men made me think at the following aspect: what if Hitler admitted that not all Jews were Zionist sympathizers and therefore potential enemies of the Reich? After all, the common Jew, the "Isaac Rabinowitz" form a small village in Poland had no interest to fight for the cause of the Jewish-American magnates.

What if Hitler tried to gain the support of the common Jews? Would he settle up a "National Socialist Jewish Organization"? Or a Waffen SS Division "Judaica" with Star of David collar patches?

~Regards,

Ovidius

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

It is a possibility - but remembering that he originately used people hate towards the jews as a way to gain power, I doubt it could succeed.

He needed someone to critizize, and this could only be the jews (well, he could have used other groups, but they were not as hated)

But if he had not gassed them, but used them as 'lesser troops' (as Hitler would put it) lke the sourthern states used Blacks to fight for them during the civil war, it could have worked.

[Dan Feltmate]

"Operation Human Shield"

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

[Ovidius]

Not neccesarily "lesser troops"(penal units etc), just regular Waffen SS troops, with regular equipment and so on, but completely separated from troops of other ethnicity(all of them, from general to private, to be Jews).

The method worked pretty well for the Spanish volunteers of the 250th Infanterie Division("Azul"). They had no reason to like too much the Germans, but they really hated the Soviet Communists, so they fought like hell, earning a fearsome combat reputation, in a war where their country was not involved.

~Ovidius

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Guess that's why the Hungarian SS fought so well too - I agree with you that it is a possibility as well...

[David C. Clarke]

I'm not at home with my books, but I distinctly recall that Heydrich himself met with zionists, including members of one of the terrorist groups that later plagued the English in Palestine. The object was to remove the Jews from the Reich and Palestine seemed an option. I'll get back to you later on this. Cheers, D

[Ebusitanus]

The method worked pretty well for the Spanish volunteers of the 250th Infanterie Division("Azul"). They had no reason to like too much the Germans, but they really hated the Soviet Communists, so they fought like hell, earning a fearsome combat reputation, in a war where their country was not involved.

~Ovidius

How do you come to the idea that the Spanish troops didn't "like" the Germans to much? The troops that went to Russia for sure were pretty germanophiles and, like the rest of Nationalist Spain, pretty much thankful for the help provided during the civil war.

[David C. Clarke]

Sorry Guys, I was mistaken, it was Eichman, not Heydrich, who met with representatives of Haganah in 1937. Sorry, David

[Karl]

I think the irony lies more in the fact that they were Jewish fascists and not so much that they wanted to create a Homeland.

A twisted story.

[mottii]

At that time Stern considered England the enemy of the jews.