Hitler's views of Native Americans?

Discussions on every day life in the Weimar Republic, pre-anschluss Austria, Third Reich and the occupied territories. Hosted by Vikki.
ThomasG
Member
Posts: 812
Joined: 25 May 2007, 00:41
Location: Europe

Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#1

Post by ThomasG » 06 Sep 2008, 03:33

I know that Hitler was a fan of James Fenimore Cooper's and Karl May's books set in the Wild West as a boy.

What did Hitler and other NSDAP ideologists think of the Native Americans as a race? Did Hitler regard white Americans with some amount of Indian ancestry as white/Aryan?

Meinsauer
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 May 2008, 08:24
Location: Wash. State USA

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#2

Post by Meinsauer » 09 Sep 2008, 08:18

Well I'm hardly an expert but I'll take a stab at it. I did read somewhere (I think it was a quote from "Mein Kampf" but not sure) that Hitler once stated that the American Indians had given the Europeans tobacco as a revenge for the European settlers having given the Indians liquor.


User avatar
Dieter
Member
Posts: 1073
Joined: 17 Aug 2004, 00:50
Location: Watsonville, CA
Contact:

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#3

Post by Dieter » 07 Nov 2008, 07:23

In his youh, Hitler was an avid reader of westerns, particularly a series of books starring a hero named "old shatterhand", which were basicly ficional adventure tales about "cowboys and indians".

User avatar
Kristian S.
Member
Posts: 225
Joined: 17 Apr 2005, 11:20
Location: Germany

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#4

Post by Kristian S. » 07 Nov 2008, 09:54

Most likely he looked upon them as a kind of noble savages. But I have no idea how they were viewed in the whole NS race concept though.

User avatar
FireFoxy
Banned
Posts: 347
Joined: 07 Nov 2008, 10:26
Location: Melbourne Austraila

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#5

Post by FireFoxy » 07 Nov 2008, 11:17

ThomasG wrote:I know that Hitler was a fan of James Fenimore Cooper's and Karl May's books set in the Wild West as a boy.

What did Hitler and other NSDAP ideologists think of the Native Americans as a race? Did Hitler regard white Americans with some amount of Indian ancestry as white/Aryan?
Hi Thomas,

I know alot about Hitler but nothin about native americans.
Hitler did accept germans with a little jewish blood into the German army, and Hitler also had asians and middle eastern
race to be apart of the German army.
Hitler himself that i know off, he really disregrad the african american race.
In saying that, anyone that was white that had a bit of indian ancestry could easy been accepted,not in the super race but
just accepted to live like normal humanbeans in Hitlers eyes.
V = VICTORY

muzza
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 08 Mar 2007, 12:35
Location: Australia

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#6

Post by muzza » 14 Nov 2008, 08:18

Hitler would not have looked upon the American Indian as noble savages IMHO.

He had very narrow and extreme views on race and if fellow Europeans were not good enough then how would Asian descended American Indians have fitted his select list of acceptable races?

he probably liked the cowboy books because the Indians always came off worse and were frequently shot.

Hitler had a romantic view of frontier warfare...it was a great adventure in his view, he envied the British for their epic adventures against the tribesmen of the North West Frontier in India and he wanted to establish a similar frontier of continuous skirmishing along the Urals with the remnants of the Russian peoples.

He said sending young German troops there would strengthen them up in coming years after the war was over.

This was one of those many ideas Hitler had which were colourful in his mind but never thought through and never actually put into effect.

As to the Red Indians...I think hitler's feelings of antipathy to them can be read into this quotation from Hitlers War Aims Vol2 where he is quoted as saying in respect of clearing the steppes of Russians and Ukranians with the ultimate result being "to Germanise this country by the immigration of Germans and to look upon the natives as Redskins." ie. to annihilate them and to move them off their homelands.

CurtD
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 08:16
Location: Georgia

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#7

Post by CurtD » 16 Nov 2008, 07:00

"Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination - by starvation and uneven combat - of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity." P. 202, "Adolph Hitler" by John Toland

nondescript handle
Member
Posts: 1837
Joined: 27 May 2003, 01:01
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#8

Post by nondescript handle » 16 Nov 2008, 20:26

I wouldn't' read too much into the "as a boy A. Hitler was a fan of Karl May's books".
Most German boys (at least before the constant TV era) were readers of Karl May books, so it's a little like "A. Hitler drank milk as a boy".

And there are likable Jewish and Black protagonists in May's books, so why would one expect that the impact on Hitler would be greater in the case of the American Natives?
muzza wrote:[...] he probably liked the cowboy books because the Indians always came off worse and were frequently shot. [...]
Er, what? Karl May's "cowboy books" (no cowboys actually) are quite different from the "good cowboys vs bad Indians" plot of the "classic" US western.

Regards
Mark

Dr Rare
Member
Posts: 58
Joined: 22 Aug 2008, 06:32

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#9

Post by Dr Rare » 30 Dec 2008, 10:50

nondescript handle wrote:I wouldn't' read too much into the "as a boy A. Hitler was a fan of Karl May's books".
Most German boys (at least before the constant TV era) were readers of Karl May books, so it's a little like "A. Hitler drank milk as a boy".
:lol:
Yes i think this is very true statement.I know from German Friends how very popular these books were and then again when they were made into movies and Television since the war.

I think the best indicator of how Native Americans or people like them would have been treated and viewed is the experience of the peoples of the African,Pacific and Chinese territories of the German Empire.

But of course there were no wild Indians of the WW2 era ,but i am sure if it was needed for propaganda purposes or there was some use to supporting Native American Nationalism to create a fifth column or to cause internal problems in the USA, then German Intelligence would have supported it or created a small military unit like they did for other minority's they supported for their own interests.

Dr

richcarrick
Member
Posts: 108
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 18:35

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#10

Post by richcarrick » 06 Jan 2009, 18:40

I think if we talk about Hitler personally, he would have held dubious views about Native Americans. After all, at the '36 Olympics he said that he would never shake hands with a negro. If we talk about the racial views of other top Nazis then these vary from grudging acceptance of foreigners (eg the expanding SS ranks later in the war) by people like Himmler, to the rabid anti semitism of Goebbles, but Hitler would have been a hard liner in accordance with his views expressed in Mein Kampf and his 'second book'

User avatar
Rothaut
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 23 Jun 2003, 21:40
Location: Central USA

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#11

Post by Rothaut » 10 Jan 2009, 01:34

Since he didn't write or speak much about them, I have no idea what Hitler's views on Native Americans were. I would guess that he might have enjoyed reading novels and stories about them but wouldn't have considered them his equal. I remember reading a quote where he said something like the Russians "fight like Indians", which could be seen as grudging respect for their fighting skills. I also recall reading that the Sioux tribes were labeled "honorary Aryans" in 1934 or 1936 so that a German officer could marry his Sioux fiancee and have her live in Germany legally. The book where I found this is in a local college library which is closed until Sunday, however I will be glad to check it out in order to verify the story and cite the source. The title might have been "American Indians and the Second World War" or something similar. There were multiple copies so I am sure I can cite it, and the sources used in the book for whoever is interested. I don't recall the author's name offhand.

CurtD
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 08:16
Location: Georgia

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#12

Post by CurtD » 10 Jan 2009, 02:07

Rothaut wrote:Since he didn't write or speak much about them, I have no idea what Hitler's views on Native Americans were.
Did anyone read my post above? Hitler said he admired the "genocide." I.e., he thought they were equivalent to Jews. Non-Aryans.

User avatar
Vikki
Forum Staff
Posts: 3300
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 02:35
Location: Amerika

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#13

Post by Vikki » 12 Jan 2009, 08:46

CurtD,

That is a very interpretative statement by Toland. Perhaps you could provide his primary documentation (if he cites one or more direct sources) for that passage?

~Vikki

User avatar
Rothaut
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 23 Jun 2003, 21:40
Location: Central USA

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#14

Post by Rothaut » 17 Jan 2009, 01:55

"Did anyone read my post above? Hitler said he admired the "genocide." I.e., he thought they were equivalent to Jews. Non-Aryans." -CurtD

While he may have admired the genocide, it doesn't explain why the German government officially declared the Sioux to be Aryans (A propaganda move. However, they didn't declare any Jewish groups to be Aryan, so the idea that they were considered equivalent to Jews must be false). I found this information in the book "American Indians and World War II" by Alison R. Bernstein. The source cited by the author is a May 10, 1939 report from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to president of the Association on Indian Affairs.

A better, lengthier explanation of the Third Reich and its dealings with Indians is offered in "World War II and the American Indian" by Kenneth William Townsend. This author also cites the Aryan designation as well as going into detail on relations between the German-American Bund and Indian tribes. If anyone is further interested in such a minor point of history, I'd recommend this book over the other. The information about the Bund and Silvershirts as well as Indian reception to German propaganda is especially interesting.

While American Indians certainly were not of Aryan descent, it seems unlikely to me that Hitler thought ANY race equivalent to the Jews, whom he considered to be a baccillus that enslaved the world economically and politically. The notion that a few hundred thousand Indians were on this level seems far-fetched to me.

-Johnny
Last edited by Rothaut on 17 Jan 2009, 05:00, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Simon K
Member
Posts: 1425
Joined: 19 Jul 2008, 20:25
Location: London U.K

Re: Hitler's views of Native Americans?

#15

Post by Simon K » 17 Jan 2009, 02:07

Hitler perceived the Jews as an alternative "master race" on whom he projected all his darkest fears and accusations of almost super- human prowess, on to them. Naturally no other "race" can match up to this. A strange world indeed.

Post Reply

Return to “Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic”