Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

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LRRPS
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Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by LRRPS » 28 Oct 2008 23:05

I have a M43 Tunic, to a Heer Pioneer NCO. Tunic has loops for a DKiG and RK. Trying to research the original owner. I have been going thru the awardholders/unit thread, and have come up with the following possibilities:

Heinrich Schultz
Rudolf Berger
Otto Sawatzki

I am sure there are more soldiers that fit this description. Anyone able to help?

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Bernd R
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Re: Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by Bernd R » 29 Oct 2008 00:13

Hi LRRPS,

first look with nearly the same result.
In my files I have (numbers +/- very few) 209 RK for Pioniere [+ 14 EL]. 37 to NCOs [+ 1 EL, Fritz Arndt] and 10 to Ranks. With DKiG in addition I determined those four. Added some info which could be of help for further examination.

Berger, Rudolf
RK : 14.04.1943 Feldwebel Zugführer i. d. 1./Pi.Btl 296
DKiG : 13.12.1942, Feldwebel, 1./Pi.Btl. 296
(1910-1990, Austrian ; last rank : Oberfeldwebel)

Sawatzki, Otto
RK p.m. : 10.09.1944 Oberfeldwebel Zugführer i. d. 3./Pi.Btl 21
DKiG : 29.03.1943, Feldwebel, 3./Pi.Btl. 21
of note :
NKiG p.m. : 29.12.1944, Oberfeldwebel, Zugführer i. d. 3./Pi.Btl. 21
EBS : 27.06.1944, Feldwebel, 3./Pi.Btl. 21
[ EBS, 2. Nennung am 05.10.1944 p.m. (2nd naming in "Ehrenblatt des deutschen Heeres posthumously) ]
(KIA 15.08.1944, Estonia ; loops for Close Combat Clasp in Silver should be on uniform)

Schultz, Heinrich
RK : 18.10.1941 Gefreiter Flammenwerferschütze i. d. 3./Pi.Btl 161
DKiG : 31.10.1942, Unteroffizier, 3./Pi.Btl. 161
(KIA 18.01.1945 Generalgouvernement ; last rank : Unteroffizier)
photo / KC Holders id sticky

maybe, not sure at the moment if they had black or pink
Pliska, Fritz
RK : 26.03.1944 Oberfeldwebel Zugführer i. d. 3./Pz.Pi.Btl 19
DKiG : 22.02.1942 Oberfeldwebel 3./PzPiBtl. 19
(1915-1995, last rank : Leutnant)


Best regards
Bernd

LRRPS
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Re: Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by LRRPS » 29 Oct 2008 09:24

Thanks, Berndt.

There are traces where a ribbon bar was pinned thru the tunic, and loops for a CCC. No ribbons for an EK or Ostfront on the tunic itself. Of course, the award loops and insignia might be added postwar, but doesn't look like that to me.

What waffenfarbe did the feuerwerker's use? Could it be an infantry tunic, with a litzen variant?

Added some pics of the tunic. Difference in colour because of flash used on the last 2.

DKiG loops.JPG
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Bernd R
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Re: Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by Bernd R » 31 Oct 2008 10:51

LRRPS,

the Feuerwerker Waffenfarbe was hochrot (bright red) with a change on 7 June 1944 to orange (orange red).
Sorry for stupid question, but it's a bit hard to see : that's the mouse grey "Einheitslitzen" with dark green in the middle - and highlights in black ?

Bernd

LRRPS
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Re: Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by LRRPS » 31 Oct 2008 12:53

Bernd R wrote:Sorry for stupid question, but it's a bit hard to see : that's the mouse grey "Einheitslitzen" with dark green in the middle - and highlights in black ?

Bernd


That's correct. Machine-sewn on. The award loops where added to the false pocket pleats before they where sewn on the tunic, so pretty sure these where added during the war.

Could I be looking at the wrong units? Could a Pioneer serve in a unit different than Pi? Going thru awardholders/unit atm, and converting to Excel but it's slow going. Lots of different formats to convert. Should be a nice tool in the end. How many NCO's got both the DKiG and RK? Can't be that many.

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Bernd R
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Re: Pioneer NCO's with both RKT and DKiG

Post by Bernd R » 12 Nov 2008 00:03

Hello LRRPS,

very difficult.. Do you have any further facts and hints about the tunic ?
Re: service of a Pionier within other branches - Yes and No in short IMO. If a Pio was just "kommandiert" for a short time service I'm sure he didn't change his uniform, resp. colour of branch. If a man belonged to a unit / branch he was to wear the respective colour of branch. What specialists were part of an infantry regiment ? The early war "Infanterie-Reiterzüge" (with the staff of an Inf.Rgt.) with the task of tactical reconnaissance were known as the "weisse Reiter" [white riders]. They lost their golden-yellow and had to wear white colour. The pioneers of the Pionierzug / Stab Inf.Rgt. also had the white if I'm correct. They don't neccessarily had to be Pioniere in the first sense of the word, but infantry men with a pioneer training. Doesn't help very much this all.

If you think it will help I will switch the topic with that specific last question (and more if you have) to the "uniforms" forum to let try the guys there.

Best regards
Bernd

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