Did Hitler survive?

[little grey rabbit]

Personally, I think Hitler escaping would be very uncharacteristic of his behavior.

Fair enough, but I am guessing you never met Hitler so you are really not in a great position to form such a judgment?

von Rundstedt did know him and this is what he said:

Never, never will I believe he put an end to his own life. That was not in accordance with his nature.

I think it is very difficult to know what will cause someone to commit suicide - some will kill themselves for comparatively trivial reasons, some will hang on to life no matter how bad it gets. So often it depends more on the inner nature of the individual rather than external factors.

In the case of Hitler, I suggest you are looking back in the view of what happens and not with the view of a Nazi in April 1945. They saw a situation where two closely related races were senselessly fighting each other for the benefit of Jewish Bolshevism represented by the USSR. What the Nazis believed until the very end was they could split the Allies and roll back the Russians. What became clear was that politically they couldn't do that with Hitler.
So on the 24th April Himmler was offering up the "death of Hitler" for his delusional alliance.

Hitler is so ill he might already be dead....could not be expected live more than two days

Schellenberg present as the same meeting said Hitler was dying from a brain hemorrhage.

On 2nd May von Krosigk was hinting at nuclear weapons:

The world knows that a third world war would mean the end of mankind. Terrible weapons have not come into use during this war but would be used then.
The more ground the Bolsheviks gain, the quicker starvation will come in Europe. This is the soil for Bolshevisation. San Francisco is not the fulfillment of the wishes of the world.
We could have save Europe from Bolshevism if our rear had been free. The world is only to be satisfied if Europe is not flooded by Bolshevism.

Hitler's stenographer describes Von Ribbontrop ringing up saying splits in the Allies were real
[Von Ribbontrop called and strove to convince Hitler he at last had authentic information indicating tension among the allies and said something about direct word from the British cabinet that a split between the western allies and Russia was assured.[/quote]

So Hitler was not committing suicide because the war was lost, he was disappearing to allow the Germans, British and Americans to roll back the Russians.

[little grey rabbit]

To return to the subject of Hitler's teeth.

There is another possibility, Google have removed the OCR search function for their scanned newspaper archive - so it is not possible to easily retrieve information anymore.
However in early May 1945 there was a blurry AP photo of Hitler's dental plate captured in the Berghof.

All that would be needed to down would be to take any jawbone, fit the dental plate to it, add any other fillings or work considered necessary and hand it over to the Russians.

I am not saying that is what happened, but I am saying that the dental identification is not nearly as strong as evidence as some people suggest. If you really want strong evidence, DNA sequence one of the teeth and compare it with the known mitochondrial DNA sequence from the same maternal line as Hitler. After all, it was considered historically valid to do this for the skull.

It the DNA is Jewish (sigh or Berber if you insist, then its Hitler!

[little grey rabbit]

Curiously, this scenario is exactly what is suggested may have happened with Eva Braun
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/126857716?

Namely a dental plate for her constructed for her but not in her mouth (in this case never fitted and not just a spare) found its way into Russian possession

Evidence on Eva Braiin doubted

LONDON, Wednesday (AAP). — The woman's body found with that of Adolf Hitler in a Berlin bunker in May, 1945, may not have been Eva Braun, according to new medical' evidence.

A group of scientists has traced her dental records and is now challenging a Soviet claim to have recovered her remains, according to findings pub lished in the British Medical Associ ation's News Review.

Official accounts said Hitler shot himself, and Eva Braun poisoned

herself in the,bunker on April 30,1945. - The bodies were than carried up to the Chancellery garden under shellfire and burnt with petrol.

The Soviets, who carried out an au topsy on what was assumed to be her body — it was burnt beyond recognition — found six teeth and a gold bridge of

four artificial teeth.

A team of forensic experts led by Norwegian-born Professor Sognnaes, emeritus professor of oral biology and

anatomy at the University of California,

has spent the past 10 years unearthing. Eva Braun's dental records. They found that she did not have a gold bridge, but did have two false porcelain teeth, which would almost certainly have survived a fire.

Professor Sognnaes says the plastic parts of the bridge would in any case have .exploded in. the fire. He has produced evidence from a Mrs Heusermann, now in her 50s, who said the bridge, had been made for Eva Braun in the dental laboratory where she worked in 1945, but was never fitted. She says the Soviets, found it in the basement dental office in the Reich
Chancellery, not in Eva Braun's body.,

Professor Sognnaes said, "It is pos sible that Eva Braun escaped. After all, there were a number of men in the bunker unaccounted for who could have helped her. No one actually witnessed

her death. .

There was no suggestion that Hitler might have escaped with her.
Fi

[little grey rabbit]

I have been reading Adam Sisman's biography on Hugh Trevor-Roper - worth a read if such subjects interest you - on page 189 he has an interesting claim (alas without revealing his source)

Hugh's reputation as an historian was far from secure. His book on Laud was though by many to have been excessively polemical. The Last Days of Hitler had won admiration around the world, but less esteem within Oxford. Though hailed as a masterpiece of historical writing, it was not a work of 'history'. By its very nature it was not a work of archival research. its colourful style left donnish readers uncomfortable. There was an element of jealousy in this reaction, of course. The Last Days of Hitler had made Hugh famous. He had begun to write for the newspapers, a dangerous activity for a don. It has also made him rich, a fact made obvious by the Bentley parked prominently in Tom Quad. Academics unqualified to judge the historical worth of the book (and some who had not even read it) nevertheless felt able to make derogatory comments about it, in common rooms and tutorials. 'There was a general feeling that Hugh allowed himself to be deceived in that book,' one remarked opaquely.

Elsewhere Sisman reports how just about every 2nd don had been recruited for some branch of the war effort generally in a classified role.

[little grey rabbit]

pages 133 -142 have the account of the investigation and the search for Hitler's will. Too much to quote all.

Dick White had recognised from the start the importance of solving this mystery. Hitler had captured the imagination of the German people; so long as the possibility remained that he might be still alive, the stability and security of the occupied zone could not be guaranteed. This man had been responsible for the most destructive war in the history of the world, causing the deaths of tens of millions; the slightest chance that Hitler might return, as Napoleon had done, was too terrible to contemplate. The ghost haunting Europe ahd to be laid to rest. White had convinced Field Marshal Montgomery, Commander-in-Chief of the British Zone, of the need for an inquiry into Hitler's fate. After the German surrender he had gone, with Montgomery's blessing, to Berlin, where the Russians assured him that both Hitler and Goebbels had committed suicide, and that their bodies had been burnt. White had been show a set of false teeth identified as Hitler's. But the Russians had since changed their story. On 26 May Stalin had told President Truman's enovy, Harry Hopkins, of his belief that Hitler had escaped and was in hiding, together with Goebbels and Bormann; and on 6 June he had told Hopkins that he was 'sure' Hitler was still alive. Since then the uncertainty about what had happened to Hitler had become a serious problem, straining the fragile relations between the victorious Allies. The Russians were now accusing the British of secretly harbouring him. White described the situation as 'intolerable'.

This was the position when Hugh discussed the subject with hart and White at the Schloss near Bad Oeynhausen. Over the thrid bottle of hock Hugh outlined what he had discovered about Hitler's last days from captured German officers, giving an account of a shoot-out in the Berlin Tiergarten which he later realised was complete fantasy. 'But this is most important!' exclaimed White, his eyes popping as they sometimes did when he was excited. White asked Hugh if he would undertake a systematic study of the evidence surrounding the fate of Hitler. He would be given all necessary facilities to carry out his inquiry and have the authority of a major-general to interrogate prisoners, to call on the services of the occupying forces, and to pursue the evidence wherever it led.

Went under the cover name of Major Oughton (Professor Norman Gash claimed to have collaborated with Trevor-Roper but no evidence in archives.
Given a copy of Hitler's engagement diary for last 6 months of life, by British officer in Berlin

1 November a handout was distributed to the Press. 9 days later submitted his report, 'The Death of Hitler', to the Quadripartite Intelligence Committee - based on 7 witnesses

'Other versions have been circulated suggesting that Hitler is not deat at all. These have been examined and found to rest on no valid evidence whatsoever.' Hugh finished his report with a list of suggested questions to be raised at the enxt meeting of the Committee, most of them directed at the Russians. The Russians noted these requests but never answered them. 'Very interesting' was the only response they would make.

page 138
Hugh had been in Oxford only about 10 days when he received a telephone call from Bad Oeynhausen. A document had been found, which appeared to be Hitler's will. Was it genuine? Hugh had already seen a telegram referring to a 'personal testament' amongDoenitz's papers, so he was predisposed to believe it so. He was soon able to examine it himself, after a photostatic copy was couriered to him.

Accompanying this personal testament was a political testament, appointing Doenitz as Hitler's successor and expelling both Goering and Himmler from the Nazi Party for their treachery in opening negotiations with teh enemy. These documents had apparently been signed by Hitler at 4 o'clock in the morning on 29 April 1945, the day before his suicide. Also attached was an appendix signed by Goebbels, in which he explained his decision to disobey the Fueher's order to flee Berlin and instead to die by his side. They had been discoverd sewn into the lining of a coat belonging to a man who claimed to be a journalist from Luxenbourg. In fact, as his interrogation revealed, he was Heinz Lorenz, a press secretary on Hitler's staff, whose principla responsiblity had been to monitor enemy radio broadcasts. It was he who had brought the Fuehrer news of Himler's attempt to negotiate with the Allies. After Hitler's death Lorenz had been ordered to deliver the documents to the Party archives in Munich, duty which he had abandoned as impossible.[/quote]

[mtobler]

Alright lets settle this once and for all with definitive photographic proof of Adolf Hitler with his Brazilian lover !

See the following article for the complete story:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/455 ... lian-lover

CASE CLOSED ! ! !

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Yes, quite. My favorite part was when she used PhotoShop as evidence. Following this trend, I discovered an even more disconcerting truth!

[steverodgers801]

It wasn't in his nature to live the life of an ordinary person after being treated as a god for so long. His dream of world domination died and so did Hitler.

[toni112007]

Hello all I found interesting picture on the interenet and dont know if its fake or real.
Picture shows soldiers carrying corpses of the unknow persons from the bunker exit?
Is this Hitler and Eva? or someone else? You can see petrol cans near soldiers to the right.
But the biggest thing wondering me is who is that person left to Goebbels. It looks just like Hitler.

[J. Duncan]

Toni
I think your photo is a "still" from a movie...it could be from "Der Letze Akt" (by G. W. Pabst).

[wenty]

Hi Toni,

No, i'm afraid this is either a fake or a still from a movie as suggested above. Only Hitler was draped over with a blanket, and Eva was carried upstairs by just one person.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Halfdan S.]

As I remember I have come across two versions of this photo - one as mentioned above is that it is a still from a movie, the other is that it is a photo from the reenactment arranged by the NKGB with Günsche, Linge etc in order to give comrade Stalin the full view of what happened …

I've tried to find sources, but can't give any at the moment, as I can't remember were I've read it

It should be easy to solve though - the reenactment took place in the Reichskanzlei, the film in settings somewhere.

Best
Halfdan S.

[sinatra1989]

Hi everyone,

This photo is a still from a movie called "Osvobozhdenie". Or in English "The Great Battle".

Best wishes,
Tom.

[Annelie]

two movie producers from Israel have made a move
claiming Hitler fled to Argentina?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krRsXG-EbgI

[wenty]

Hi Annelie,

Interesting stuff. The escape to Argentina theory has been around before, probably because it was such a popular area for fleeing Nazis after World War II. While I think there's a reasonable chance that Hitler could have survived the war, however, I don't think it would have been to Argentina.

Anyway, there's some interesting related videos in the column next to this video on Youtube, definitely worth checking out further!

Cheers,
Adam.