Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Today they began clearing the area where the gold train is supposedly hidden. It will take a week or two.
- Reader3000
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Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
wm, thanks for keeping us up to date.
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Returning to Mr Krzysztof Szpakowski and his underground complexes. This a radargram of one of the tunnels he has discovered:
It seems the KS-700s are made by a mom-and-pop business located in a private house in a small town in Germany. They use off-the-shelf software (Stone Age, Golden Surfer Voxler) to create those pretty radargrams. Their cheap and atrocious website says KS-700 [...] is somewhat a “Ground Penetrating Radar” - adminiting it's not a professional device. Already some people openly claim the KS-700 is nothing but a toy.
But anyway there is a possibility that tomorrow the gold train site will be preliminary inspected using professional equipment by a group from the Polish Army Museum.
Because of that it may be useful to show the probable location of the train according to Tadeusz Słowikowski, a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to find the gold train. In 2003 he even started to dig in the area shown below (50.823174, 16.307737) but eventually got the boot for being a nuisance. this is his idea where the tunnel is (the yellow stripes):
As can be seen it was made with the same KS-700 the discovery of the gold train was made. And this may be a problem. It's one of the cheapest ground-penetrating radars (GPR) available. It seems the KS-700s are made by a mom-and-pop business located in a private house in a small town in Germany. They use off-the-shelf software (Stone Age, Golden Surfer Voxler) to create those pretty radargrams. Their cheap and atrocious website says KS-700 [...] is somewhat a “Ground Penetrating Radar” - adminiting it's not a professional device. Already some people openly claim the KS-700 is nothing but a toy.
But anyway there is a possibility that tomorrow the gold train site will be preliminary inspected using professional equipment by a group from the Polish Army Museum.
Because of that it may be useful to show the probable location of the train according to Tadeusz Słowikowski, a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to find the gold train. In 2003 he even started to dig in the area shown below (50.823174, 16.307737) but eventually got the boot for being a nuisance. this is his idea where the tunnel is (the yellow stripes):
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Thanks for the updates WM!
- Geoff Walden
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Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
wm - thanks very much for all the info and updates - keep it coming!
This is all very interesting to me, since I visited the public parts of the Riese system last year - fascinating!
This is all very interesting to me, since I visited the public parts of the Riese system last year - fascinating!
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Thank you, wm, better than a BBC reporter!
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Well, the BBC says very little about these discoveries, maybe the silence means something.
It seems the group from the Polish Army Museum have been denied access to the gold train site for bureaucratic reasons, and nothing can be done about it.
It's a shame because those people are the best professionals available in this country. Among them were representatives of MALÅ GeoScience - a leading producer of GPRs, and people from a long running television documentary dedicated to underground exploration of WW2 sites.
The army is going to do it - eventually. The problem is that more than likely they have little practical experience in such investigations.
Generally the handling of the gold train affair by the governmental bureaucracy has been abysmal from the day one, this is the newest example of this - and a nice example of the evils of bureaucracy.
Now, the place is going to be checked by the Army for the presence of subsurface Nazi landmines (one might think that in a city, in a frequently visited by the locals place there are none) and then the for presence of chemical weapons (because some old man says he heard from some women who had heard from some Germans they had there canisters with gas so powerful it would kill everyone in Europe).
Why a non-invasive GPR scan can't be done without all that demining is rather unclear. But the price for all these is quite clear - $27000.
Anyway we have another claimant, this time from Germany - four places, two easily identifiable.
The first is more or less the gold train location as it has been assumed so far, but slightly closer to the railway it seems (50°49'15.83"N, 16°18'18.82"E)(marked 176/1): the second place (50°47'59.34"N, 16°17'41.67"E) (marked 40/14): a wider view: there is even a visualisation available:
It seems the group from the Polish Army Museum have been denied access to the gold train site for bureaucratic reasons, and nothing can be done about it.
It's a shame because those people are the best professionals available in this country. Among them were representatives of MALÅ GeoScience - a leading producer of GPRs, and people from a long running television documentary dedicated to underground exploration of WW2 sites.
The army is going to do it - eventually. The problem is that more than likely they have little practical experience in such investigations.
Generally the handling of the gold train affair by the governmental bureaucracy has been abysmal from the day one, this is the newest example of this - and a nice example of the evils of bureaucracy.
Now, the place is going to be checked by the Army for the presence of subsurface Nazi landmines (one might think that in a city, in a frequently visited by the locals place there are none) and then the for presence of chemical weapons (because some old man says he heard from some women who had heard from some Germans they had there canisters with gas so powerful it would kill everyone in Europe).
Why a non-invasive GPR scan can't be done without all that demining is rather unclear. But the price for all these is quite clear - $27000.
Anyway we have another claimant, this time from Germany - four places, two easily identifiable.
The first is more or less the gold train location as it has been assumed so far, but slightly closer to the railway it seems (50°49'15.83"N, 16°18'18.82"E)(marked 176/1): the second place (50°47'59.34"N, 16°17'41.67"E) (marked 40/14): a wider view: there is even a visualisation available:
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Lidar scans from geoportal.gov.pl show some unusual, non-obvious features in both locations. The first has two "ramps" (between the railway line and the large commercial buildings):
the second a large 400m long embankment: Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
The discoverer, or maybe a discoveress Christel Focken, the author of these, quite nicely looking books:
- Ostwall Die vergessene Festungsfront "Oder-Warthe-Bogen",
- Riese (Schlesien) FHQ »Führerhauptquartiere«,
- Wolfschanze (Ostpreußen) FHQ »Führerhauptquartiere«,
- Oberkommando des Heeres Maybach 1 + 2, Zeppelin.
- Ostwall Die vergessene Festungsfront "Oder-Warthe-Bogen",
- Riese (Schlesien) FHQ »Führerhauptquartiere«,
- Wolfschanze (Ostpreußen) FHQ »Führerhauptquartiere«,
- Oberkommando des Heeres Maybach 1 + 2, Zeppelin.
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
So it seems we have five groups fighting their way to fame, and they are:
1. Andreas Richter i Piotr Koper - claiming a single location in the city of Wałbrzych, nearby the Szczawienko Railway Station. They are known for their blind faith in their miraculously all seeing GPR:
2. Krzysztof Szpakowski - claiming multiple tunnels and underground complexes near the village of Walim, known for his blind faith in his dowsing rods: 3. the local council of the administrative district (gmina) of Mieroszów, their findings:
a) a tunnel beginning in an old railway tunnel near the village of Unisław Śląski,
b) not mentioned yet, tunnels somewhere between the town of Mieroszów and the village of Kowalowa. 4. Christel Focken, a writer, a tour operator featuring ruins, bunkers and tunnels of Third Reich in Poland. And it seems a rabid historic treasure hunter: her two claims:
a) three locations nearby the Szczawienko Railway Station,
b) a location in Wałbrzych called Piaskowa Góra (the 400 meters long land feature).
5. Tadeusz Słowikowski, the original discoverer of the gold train, the man who have kept the legend alive for almost a half a century:
1. Andreas Richter i Piotr Koper - claiming a single location in the city of Wałbrzych, nearby the Szczawienko Railway Station. They are known for their blind faith in their miraculously all seeing GPR:
2. Krzysztof Szpakowski - claiming multiple tunnels and underground complexes near the village of Walim, known for his blind faith in his dowsing rods: 3. the local council of the administrative district (gmina) of Mieroszów, their findings:
a) a tunnel beginning in an old railway tunnel near the village of Unisław Śląski,
b) not mentioned yet, tunnels somewhere between the town of Mieroszów and the village of Kowalowa. 4. Christel Focken, a writer, a tour operator featuring ruins, bunkers and tunnels of Third Reich in Poland. And it seems a rabid historic treasure hunter: her two claims:
a) three locations nearby the Szczawienko Railway Station,
b) a location in Wałbrzych called Piaskowa Góra (the 400 meters long land feature).
5. Tadeusz Słowikowski, the original discoverer of the gold train, the man who have kept the legend alive for almost a half a century:
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Outstanding reportage, maps and photos! I just hope old age doesn't take me away before this is all unraveled and we finally know the outcome.
Larry D.
Larry D.
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
It all reminds me very strongly of the hullabaloo a few years back when people found a secret vault that (allegedly) had belonged to Al Capone. When it was opened there was nothing in it, just some rubbish.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton
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Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
A railway worker from Opole, named Joachim Ibrom maintained that there was a siding extended several hundred metres from the nearby main railway line to Wałbrzych running underneath Furstenstein Castle (renamed Ksiaz Castle by the Poles). Ibrom maintained that the so called Nazi Bell device had to be shifted underneath Furstenstein Castle in November 1944 from Breslau [beneath Gandau Airfield].
In December 1944 the device was installed in the former Wenceslas Coal Mine near the village of Ludwigsdorf. Ibrom reported routinely shunting into the Wenceslas mine a group of six wagons with electrical switching gear which fitted the description of Marx capacitors. Ibrom noted the so called Nazi Bell device had an eerie blue light emanating from it and sounded like a beehive when operated. Ibrom also said the wagons were retrieved every time the device was operated (lasting under a minute) and each time the wagons had to be destroyed then cut up as they could not be re-used.
What he described sounded very much like a nuclear plasma irradiation process involving an advanced cyclotron device.
It may well be therefore that the Polish Government understands the real purpose of these hidden trains may involve radioactive contamination explaining why there is no stomach for uncovering these lost trains.
In December 1944 the device was installed in the former Wenceslas Coal Mine near the village of Ludwigsdorf. Ibrom reported routinely shunting into the Wenceslas mine a group of six wagons with electrical switching gear which fitted the description of Marx capacitors. Ibrom noted the so called Nazi Bell device had an eerie blue light emanating from it and sounded like a beehive when operated. Ibrom also said the wagons were retrieved every time the device was operated (lasting under a minute) and each time the wagons had to be destroyed then cut up as they could not be re-used.
What he described sounded very much like a nuclear plasma irradiation process involving an advanced cyclotron device.
It may well be therefore that the Polish Government understands the real purpose of these hidden trains may involve radioactive contamination explaining why there is no stomach for uncovering these lost trains.
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Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Worth recalling that nearby Dhyrenfurth was manufacturing Tabun-B nerve gas for an intended artillery campaign against the Soviets using nerve agents due for October 1944. Clearly the campaign never eventuated.wm wrote:Well, the BBC says very little about these discoveries, maybe the silence means something. ...
Now, the place is going to be checked by the Army for the presence of subsurface Nazi landmines (one might think that in a city, in a frequently visited by the locals place there are none) and then the for presence of chemical weapons (because some old man says he heard from some women who had heard from some Germans they had there canisters with gas so powerful it would kill everyone in Europe).
Large stocks of artillery shells containing Tabun-B are said to have been stored on a barge on a lake somewhere. Perhaps these trains are related to activities at Dhyrenfurth?
Re: Nazi gold train 'found in Poland'
Although tabun and the others nerve agents would have leaked by now, they are highly destructive to anything including glass. The results of this would be visible on the ground.
A member of the group number 1 shows a radargram of an anti-aircraft gun discovered by their equipment on that train: this is the place where, according to Krzysztof Szpakowski, the tunnels and complexes near Walim begins (50.701345, 16.437215): everybody says it's a former railway station, but in fact it is an old locomotive shed. Please, less dowsing more googling
A member of the group number 1 shows a radargram of an anti-aircraft gun discovered by their equipment on that train: this is the place where, according to Krzysztof Szpakowski, the tunnels and complexes near Walim begins (50.701345, 16.437215): everybody says it's a former railway station, but in fact it is an old locomotive shed. Please, less dowsing more googling