Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

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James Paul
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Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#1

Post by James Paul » 18 Feb 2017, 23:02

In John Toland's biography of Hitler he states that Hitler took his Germanism one step further by despising the Austro-Hungarian empire (much to the disapproval of his civil servant father), expressed loyalty only to Germany, sang German songs and vehemently considered himself German.

Did the Germans during the Nazi era ever mock Hitler for being Austrian? I know Hindenburg referred to himself as the "Austrian corporal".

Was it not strange for the Germans to be led by an Austrian? Did the average German not care that they were being ruled by someone who was not German by birth? Hitler only became a German citizen in 1932, a couple of occasions prior to this he should have actually been deported back to Austria.

I've read Mein Kampf and listened to Hitler's speeches during the Anschluss period and he quite clearly considered Austrians to be Germans, why?

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#2

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 19 Feb 2017, 11:04

he quite clearly considered Austrians to be Germans, why?
Did you know how much Austria tried to join the german republic after WW1?

Jan-Hendrik


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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#3

Post by ManfredV » 19 Feb 2017, 12:03

Hindenburg referred to him as "bohemian corporal" (Böhmischer Gefreiter),not "austrian corporal" . During 1866 war young soldier Hindenburg stayed at Braunau in Bohemia. Old Hindenburg was more or less spacy and so he mixed it up, maybe he didn't know that there is a Braunau/Inn.
Hitler an Austrian: many Germans knew that Austria was part of Germany until 1866 and in patriotic and chauvinist thinking they wanted that all german speaking areas should be part of a Great Germany. "Großdeutschland" vs "Kleindeutschland" was an important issue 1815 - 1871 and after WWI.
In Austria many german speaking people felt "Großdeutsch" or "deutschnational" and opposed K & k monarchy - one of many reasons why K & k state failed. 1919 "Deutsch-Österreich" tried to be unified with Germany but that wasn't allowed winner nations of WWI.
Hitler felt as german and so he refused to fight in K & k army but enlisted to bavarian army in 1914.
So it was no problem and no matter for germans that Hitler was "austrian".
Austria is german or not? Thats a great and difficult question. Austria was part of old "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" and later German federation, but de facto they started their own way since middle ages and under Habsburg leadership. They were "thrown out" 1866. At least after WWII austrians considered themselves as a nation of their own and not german. And: there is a great difference between Germany as nation and german speaking people at all.
What about Switzerland? Many swiss people speak german, their culture is alemanic german, Switzerland was de facto until 1499 and de jure until 1648 part of Holy Roman Empire, but no one really claims today that Swiss people are Germans.
Hitler was born as austrian. Then Austria officially regarded him as stateless because he was a deserter who served in a foreign army and at least he got a german passport.

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#4

Post by Balrog » 19 Feb 2017, 13:47

Why was Hitler denied a German passport until 1932? He was a highly decorated war veteran. I've wondered about this issue too. I know Hitler worried about being deported, why wasn't he,especially after the failed Beer Hall Putsch?

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#5

Post by James Paul » 19 Feb 2017, 19:00

Jan-Hendrik wrote:Did you know how much Austria tried to join the german republic after WW1?

Jan-Hendrik
Yes, I know it was renamed The Republic of German-Austria.

But did the Germans of the 1930s not consider Hitler essentially a foreigner who was not German but Austrian? Or were Austrians considered a type of Germans during that era?
ManfredV wrote:Hindenburg referred to him as "bohemian corporal" (Böhmischer Gefreiter),not "austrian corporal" . During 1866 war young soldier Hindenburg stayed at Braunau in Bohemia. Old Hindenburg was more or less spacy and so he mixed it up, maybe he didn't know that there is a Braunau/Inn.
Hindenburg also used the term "Austrian corporal".
Afterwards, Hindenburg often disparagingly referred to Hitler in private variously as "that Austrian corporal", "that Bohemian corporal" or sometimes just simply as "the corporal".

On 26 January 1933, Hindenburg privately told a group of his friends: "Gentlemen, I hope you will not hold me capable of appointing this Austrian corporal to be Reich Chancellor".
Hitler an Austrian: many Germans knew that Austria was part of Germany until 1866 and in patriotic and chauvinist thinking they wanted that all german speaking areas should be part of a Great Germany. "Großdeutschland" vs "Kleindeutschland" was an important issue 1815 - 1871 and after WWI.
In Austria many german speaking people felt "Großdeutsch" or "deutschnational" and opposed K & k monarchy - one of many reasons why K & k state failed. 1919 "Deutsch-Österreich" tried to be unified with Germany but that wasn't allowed winner nations of WWI.
Hitler felt as german and so he refused to fight in K & k army but enlisted to bavarian army in 1914.
So it was no problem and no matter for germans that Hitler was "austrian".
Austria is german or not? Thats a great and difficult question. Austria was part of old "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" and later German federation, but de facto they started their own way since middle ages and under Habsburg leadership. They were "thrown out" 1866. At least after WWII austrians considered themselves as a nation of their own and not german. And: there is a great difference between Germany as nation and german speaking people at all.
What about Switzerland? Many swiss people speak german, their culture is alemanic german, Switzerland was de facto until 1499 and de jure until 1648 part of Holy Roman Empire, but no one really claims today that Swiss people are Germans.
Hitler was born as austrian. Then Austria officially regarded him as stateless because he was a deserter who served in a foreign army and at least he got a german passport.
Hitler felt Austrians were Germans and considered himself German but the facts remain that he was not born in Germany and did not become a German citizen until 1932, two facts he would never have been able to deny or would have denied since he always spoke about annexing Austria to Germany.

Many biographies of Hitler and the Third Reich seem to emphasis Hitler's Austrian origin e.g Richard Evans' The Coming of the Third Reich states ""for her was not German by birth or citizenship, but Austrian." Is this just a post-WW2 idea to place a gap between Austrian and German? Here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9waMqzl3Ro about his book Mein Kampf and again the speaker emphasises "how did this Austrian who seemed to come out of nowhere succeed in conquering Germany?"

From what I've read, even after Austria was excluded from Germany in 1866 up until 1945 the vast majority of Austrians considered themselves Germans. Were all those people German nationalists or was the national identity of Austria until the mid 20th century "German"? If so, then it's perfectly acceptable to see why Hitler thought of himself as German.

But did the Germans between 1933-1945 consider Austrians to be Germans and thus Hitler to be a German?
Balrog wrote:Why was Hitler denied a German passport until 1932? He was a highly decorated war veteran. I've wondered about this issue too. I know Hitler worried about being deported, why wasn't he,especially after the failed Beer Hall Putsch?
Have a read of the German Wikipedia page regarding Hitler's naturalisation as a German citizen.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einb%C3%B ... lf_Hitlers

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#6

Post by ManfredV » 20 Feb 2017, 12:11

After WWI many Austrians through all parties and parts of society doubted if "remaining" Austria could survive as a state and therefore wanted to be unified with Germany. Even Austria's governement wanted it. Many Germans also agreed. Old conflict from 19th century "Kleindeutschland" vs "Großdeutschland" wasn't important any more because Habsburg Empire was dissolved.
I think it was no problem for most Germans that Hitler was born as austrian. But duríng Weimar Republic Hitler himself was concerned about his citizenship. So his efforts for a german passport should be a secret. But newspapers had their story:
Hildburghausen, Braunschweig etc.
After WWII nearly all Austrians claimed that they are no Germans and a nation of their own.

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#7

Post by James Paul » 20 Feb 2017, 22:23

ManfredV wrote:After WWI many Austrians through all parties and parts of society doubted if "remaining" Austria could survive as a state and therefore wanted to be unified with Germany. Even Austria's governement wanted it. Many Germans also agreed. Old conflict from 19th century "Kleindeutschland" vs "Großdeutschland" wasn't important any more because Habsburg Empire was dissolved.
I think it was no problem for most Germans that Hitler was born as austrian. But duríng Weimar Republic Hitler himself was concerned about his citizenship. So his efforts for a german passport should be a secret. But newspapers had their story:
Hildburghausen, Braunschweig etc.
After WWII nearly all Austrians claimed that they are no Germans and a nation of their own.
Image

As this map shows, the vast majority of the people living in the Austrian part of the Austro-Hungarian empire were ethnic Germans.

So basically Hitler was an Austrian-German who moved to Germany and eventually became a German citizen.

I guess the only people who stress the notion "Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian" are unaware of the history of Austria and Germany and the concept of Germans as an ethnic group as opposed to the German citizenship post-1871 after the unification of Germany which excluded Austria.
Hitler, of course, was a German, but he was born a subject of the Habsburg Empire, where Germans had played the leading for centuries. However, with Bismarck's creation in the 1860s of a German Empire based on Prussia, from which the Austrian Germans were excluded, the latter found themselves forced to defend their historic claim to rule against the growing demands for equality of the Czechs and the other "subject peoples".
Alan Bullock, Hitler and Stalin: Parallel Lives (2003), p.2

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#8

Post by Wordsworth » 21 Feb 2017, 21:40

IIRC, Hitler's nationality was a minor issue after the Beer Hall Putsch when there was talk of deporting him for not being a citizen. It seems that his self-identifying as German and his service in the German Army during the war allowed for some leeway in him being tried instead.

After his parole from Landsburg, he was expected to stay on good behavior, but didn't and was threatened with deportation then. That's when he gave up his Austrian citizenship and became a stateless person.

I don't know that the Germans necessarily cared as a whole that he was born in Austria as he was an ethnic German. From what I've read, some in the German aristocracy looked down on him because of his lack of breeding and the Prussians in the Army resented not only the lack of breeding, but also him never having been an officer.

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Re: Did the Germans ever question Hitler being an Austrian?

#9

Post by James Paul » 26 Feb 2017, 00:46

Wordsworth wrote:IIRC, Hitler's nationality was a minor issue after the Beer Hall Putsch when there was talk of deporting him for not being a citizen. It seems that his self-identifying as German and his service in the German Army during the war allowed for some leeway in him being tried instead.

After his parole from Landsburg, he was expected to stay on good behavior, but didn't and was threatened with deportation then. That's when he gave up his Austrian citizenship and became a stateless person.

I don't know that the Germans necessarily cared as a whole that he was born in Austria as he was an ethnic German. From what I've read, some in the German aristocracy looked down on him because of his lack of breeding and the Prussians in the Army resented not only the lack of breeding, but also him never having been an officer.
The judge who sentenced Hitler was sympathetic and stated:
Hitler is a German-Austrian. He considered himself to be a German. In the opinion of the court, the meaning and the terms of section 9, para II of the Law for the Protection of the Republic cannot apply to a man who thinks and feels as German as Hitler, who voluntarily served for four and a half years in the German army at war, who attained high military honours through outstanding bravery in the face of the enemy, was wounded, suffered other damage to his health, and was released from the military into the control of the district Command Munich I.
Despite being stateless for seven years, Hitler did eventually become a German citizen in 1932 after many failed attempts.

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