Elizabeth Str ends on Mendener Str. just before the building I highlighted.
The photographer was probably standing on that corner for still I took of the loop of film showing the windows.
The corner building on your video link on 3:33-3:36 is a little up the road in the intersection of Mendener with Pütter Str. Just before that street at 3:27 on the video is Mullensiefen Str. These two streets end on Mendener, both at an angle.
That corner on the background of the White Scout Car is an entrance or street at a 90 degree angle. Might be farther towards the downtown area. I' convinced tge road was straight back then and explains the shot from behind the WSC, where you see the street goes on to the end of the view. I also believe from my marked vehicle toward the down town area, the buildings are four levels and some still show distinctive, lets call it "fancy" finishes. A coupke of these are not viewaable on the current tape as the video car is driving on what I belueve is a more modern by-pass.
I used your City of Iserlohn link to try and get a 1940' map. Lets see if they respond...
Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
No, not that one. I'm talking about corner with Elizabeth Str.The corner building on your video link on 3:33-3:36 is a little up the road in the intersection of Mendener with Pütter Str. Just before that street at 3:27 on the video is Mullensiefen Str. These two streets end on Mendener, both at an angle.
That corner on the background of the White Scout Car is an entrance or street at a 90 degree angle
I'm pretty sure sequence of events on 1945 video is not in order and German unit was actually leaving the City along Mendener Str., not entering.
So my guess is, photos on Old Town Hall square were taken first, then Schillerplatz, finally leaving town along Mendener Str.
Here are the buildings - two of them with 3 windows in a row each, then corner one with 4 windows in a row and the bakery below.
Car is moving like unit on 1945 video, leaving the City, so still I attached earlier - Unidentified corner building 1 - is a view from the other direction.
- f1.jpg (33.66 KiB) Viewed 2070 times
- f2.jpg (36.94 KiB) Viewed 2070 times
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Oh Wow! I see what you mean.
But the one I linked which is on the right of Menderer heading north east is shown in the end of 45 video. That would make the vehicles heading into town. Of course mayne they headed into town and left on the same street. As you well say, the video is put together of several loops of film and not necessarily in chronological order. Different photographers too.
Back to the drawing board or t least back to the videos!
But the one I linked which is on the right of Menderer heading north east is shown in the end of 45 video. That would make the vehicles heading into town. Of course mayne they headed into town and left on the same street. As you well say, the video is put together of several loops of film and not necessarily in chronological order. Different photographers too.
Back to the drawing board or t least back to the videos!
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
I went over the videos again and your theory makes a lot of sense.
I had previously mis-identified Elizabeth Str.
Thought it was the first one on the left entering Mendener after the curve.
The building I identified with the yellow rectangle is to the right just beyond Bergenwer Str. which is the first street entering Mendener from the left going out of town.
There are three streets that enter Mendener on the left and all three enter Mendener at a 90 degree angle: Bergenwerk Str, Elizabeth Str and Freiligrath Str.
I had not even looked to that side of the street on the current video as I was concentrating always on the right side of Mendener going out!
That is key to your theory because the other streets connecting on the right, link to Mendener at an angle, so they could not be the one on the background of the WSC 45 video.
The third one (Freiligrath) on the left crosses Mendener, so it is 90 degrees on the right too, but by then the buildings are much smaller.
From the building I indentified, the vehicles were leading into town for sure, but if that corner is indeed the corner in the background in some of the 45 video, then they also rode in that direction out of town!
I thought of looking at the shadows to see if they could help determine the direction... Definitely shadows in the drive by and in the Schillerplatz video loops. Maybe that can help determine direction of the column...
Of course any good photographer will try if possible to have the sun behind him! But using the shadows on the Schillerplatz pieces can give a reference for the drive by, although it might be earlier or much later and that would give a different sunlight angle...
I had previously mis-identified Elizabeth Str.
Thought it was the first one on the left entering Mendener after the curve.
The building I identified with the yellow rectangle is to the right just beyond Bergenwer Str. which is the first street entering Mendener from the left going out of town.
There are three streets that enter Mendener on the left and all three enter Mendener at a 90 degree angle: Bergenwerk Str, Elizabeth Str and Freiligrath Str.
I had not even looked to that side of the street on the current video as I was concentrating always on the right side of Mendener going out!
That is key to your theory because the other streets connecting on the right, link to Mendener at an angle, so they could not be the one on the background of the WSC 45 video.
The third one (Freiligrath) on the left crosses Mendener, so it is 90 degrees on the right too, but by then the buildings are much smaller.
From the building I indentified, the vehicles were leading into town for sure, but if that corner is indeed the corner in the background in some of the 45 video, then they also rode in that direction out of town!
I thought of looking at the shadows to see if they could help determine the direction... Definitely shadows in the drive by and in the Schillerplatz video loops. Maybe that can help determine direction of the column...
Of course any good photographer will try if possible to have the sun behind him! But using the shadows on the Schillerplatz pieces can give a reference for the drive by, although it might be earlier or much later and that would give a different sunlight angle...
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Here is another piece of the puzzle. Found this 1945 map of Iserlohn.
As I suspected the Mendener Str back then was straight into the downtown area. The modern "kink" is part of a modern by-pass (Theodor-Heuss Str.)
Also noticed that the image of the Hunting Tigers in front of the old Rathaus also has strong shadows. Too bad this map is not of higher resolution to get the Shilerplatz angle of shadows more accurately.
As I suspected the Mendener Str back then was straight into the downtown area. The modern "kink" is part of a modern by-pass (Theodor-Heuss Str.)
Also noticed that the image of the Hunting Tigers in front of the old Rathaus also has strong shadows. Too bad this map is not of higher resolution to get the Shilerplatz angle of shadows more accurately.
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Impossible to know the exact angles of the sun, and the buildings, but if the buildings on the south edge of Schillerplatz are close to being on an east to west line, then the sun angle in the image of the Rathaus and of the Jagdtigers in Schillerplatz have the sun roughly coming from the southeast.
On the images of the drive by on Mendener Str, the angle seems to be a bit more from the south, which would be consistent with a later time.
The only piece that for me is a bit puzzling is the building I think I matched to the other side of Mendener Str. Interestingly that piece of film does not show shadows and is taken of the building and the top of some vehicles.
The area of the 1945 video is from 5:53 to 6:09.
I'll link the 1945 video I have been using to have it all in this thread. There are several compilations of this video and not are all the same.
Here the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knqfxnLM2t0
If I get to Iserlohn, the first thing I would do is go to Elizabeth Str and look around the corner. If traces of those arches, visible in the background of the WSC, are there then that would definitely be the corner and as far as I'm concerned the drive by would have beenafter the ceremony in Schillerplatz and after the image in front of the old Rathaus. In that direction, as shown in the 1945 map the British eventually had their barracks. Maybe it was some sort of detention camp at the time. From the story of the conversation between Albert Ernst and the US officer we know the US officer offered Ernst not to be interned, but he refused. What is odd is that they would be allowed to drive their Jagdtigers and armoured cars to wherever they would be held prisoners.
On the images of the drive by on Mendener Str, the angle seems to be a bit more from the south, which would be consistent with a later time.
The only piece that for me is a bit puzzling is the building I think I matched to the other side of Mendener Str. Interestingly that piece of film does not show shadows and is taken of the building and the top of some vehicles.
The area of the 1945 video is from 5:53 to 6:09.
I'll link the 1945 video I have been using to have it all in this thread. There are several compilations of this video and not are all the same.
Here the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knqfxnLM2t0
If I get to Iserlohn, the first thing I would do is go to Elizabeth Str and look around the corner. If traces of those arches, visible in the background of the WSC, are there then that would definitely be the corner and as far as I'm concerned the drive by would have beenafter the ceremony in Schillerplatz and after the image in front of the old Rathaus. In that direction, as shown in the 1945 map the British eventually had their barracks. Maybe it was some sort of detention camp at the time. From the story of the conversation between Albert Ernst and the US officer we know the US officer offered Ernst not to be interned, but he refused. What is odd is that they would be allowed to drive their Jagdtigers and armoured cars to wherever they would be held prisoners.
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Yet another interesting image. This time at Schillerplatz, with the buildings to the south, clearly showing damage by shelling.
The buildings in the background on this image and one posted by Greg at the begining of this thread run parallel to an east / west as shown in the maps. That and the shadows help to approximate the sunlight angle.
The folks at Stadt Iselhorn answered my email and sent me the map shown above, but with very high resolution where I can online enlarge any area with no problem.
The buildings in the background on this image and one posted by Greg at the begining of this thread run parallel to an east / west as shown in the maps. That and the shadows help to approximate the sunlight angle.
The folks at Stadt Iselhorn answered my email and sent me the map shown above, but with very high resolution where I can online enlarge any area with no problem.
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Hi,
About the secuence of the surrender:
On 16 April Oberleutnant Rondorf and Hauptmann Ernst went from the HQ of the 1/512 to the Town Hall appox. at 11:30. The HQ was in a house opposite the railway underpass toward Letmathe, in the Hagenerstraße. (Is Eilentrop in your map?) The surrender procedure was terminated at 12 noon.
From the Town Hall the 1/512 went to Schillerplatz through Wermingser Strasse. About 15:00 the Ernst Panzer group was handed over. Then the unit went by the Mendenerstr. to a field near Hemer.
Regards,
About the secuence of the surrender:
On 16 April Oberleutnant Rondorf and Hauptmann Ernst went from the HQ of the 1/512 to the Town Hall appox. at 11:30. The HQ was in a house opposite the railway underpass toward Letmathe, in the Hagenerstraße. (Is Eilentrop in your map?) The surrender procedure was terminated at 12 noon.
From the Town Hall the 1/512 went to Schillerplatz through Wermingser Strasse. About 15:00 the Ernst Panzer group was handed over. Then the unit went by the Mendenerstr. to a field near Hemer.
Regards,
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
Thanks for this confirmation!
Re: Schillerplatz (Iserlohn) than and now images?
That is great! I had not been back here in a long time. In 2017 I had planned to go to Iserlohn in early September, but it was not meant to be.
Today I looked at the expanded map and could not find the Hagenstrasse in the area. Looked around the railroad tracks from Iserlohn towards Letmathe, and did not find that street.
The road that goes under the tracks is now called Oestricher Str., maybe there was a name change...
Could not find Eilentrop either. What is the significance of Eilentrop?
This was a lot of fun and it is great to get confirmation of the sequence.
Today I looked at the expanded map and could not find the Hagenstrasse in the area. Looked around the railroad tracks from Iserlohn towards Letmathe, and did not find that street.
The road that goes under the tracks is now called Oestricher Str., maybe there was a name change...
Could not find Eilentrop either. What is the significance of Eilentrop?
This was a lot of fun and it is great to get confirmation of the sequence.