Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

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ColinWright
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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#121

Post by ColinWright » 28 Nov 2017, 01:07

Indeed, and as long as Stalin has come up, I'd argue all his purges had a purpose.

He sought to perpetuate his rule by successively terrorizing every element of Soviet Society. He went after the peasantry, industry, the Party,the intelligensia, the military, and apparently just about every ethnic minority in the country.

It was of course incredibly evil, but it did serve a purpose. It was rational: a means to an end.

This is distinct from the Nazi persecution of the Jews. The motive there remains to be explained. If the Nazis sincerely thought the Jews were some kind of collective organism of evil, where did they acquire such a belief from, what made it seem credible, and what made the bulk of Germans think it was all somehow reasonable.

We tend to be presented with Nazi ideology as just being there. It has no credible history or motive, we're not offered explanations or what made it plausible and attractive.

Compare and contrast to, say, Marxism. Without going on and on about it, one can see how it was a response to the conditions of the early industrial revolution, what the appeal was, and who would be drawn to it. It's comprehensible -- even if it did kill more people than Hitler ever did.

But what was with Nazi anti-semitism? Where did that come from? Why so virulent? Were Jews really seen as that distinct? That German Jews were so assimilated makes it all the more perplexing. After all, when I think about my childhood, I grew up in a background that was effectively 20-30% assimilated West Coast Jews -- here I'm talking about people I actually associated with, etc. I simply didn't attach any significance to their identity at all. You might as well have suggested to me that I should single out and persecute people who wore size nine shoes.
Last edited by ColinWright on 28 Nov 2017, 01:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#122

Post by wm » 28 Nov 2017, 01:10

More from Berlin:
In the heat of a polemic on the sudden prominence of the Jews in the urban landscape of Germany the nineteenth-century historian Heinrich von Treitschke - who took a decidedly negative view of the Jews' embourgroisement - is reported to have snapped that one knows one has entered a city when one sees a synagogue.
This ironic comment was an oblique reference to Berlin's elegant Oranienburger Strasse synagogue, whose towering gilded dome, crowned with a Star of David, claimed a commanding position in the city's skyline.
In the presence of Chancellor Bismarck and a legion of Berlin's notables, the splendid house of worship was dedicated in September 1866. Just a few days later, the city would celebrate the triumphant procession of Prussia's troops returning from their victorious battles against Austria, concluding a war that heralded the unification of Germany under the tutelage of Prussia and the royal house of the Hohenzollern. The dedication of the synagogue thus marked both the emergence of Berlin as the prosperous capital of the new state - the Second German Empire - and the coming of age of the city's Jewish community, whose rapid growth was prominently associated with the city's meteoric rise from a provincial backwater to a vibrant metropolis.


In the decade from 1864 to 1874 alone Berlin's Jewish population grew from 24000 to 45.000 - a number all the more striking when one recalls that, in 1812, the Jewish community numbered only 3,000. The Jewish population would continue to grow with that of the ever burgeoning city.
However, their proportion of the city's general population would never exceed 4 percent. Nonetheless their impact on the economic and intellectual life of Berlin far exceeded the limits of their demographic representation. It was in fact, the widely perceived disproportionate role of the Jews in the commercial and intellectual life of Berlin - symbolized by the Oranienburger Strasse synagogue - that dearly irked Treitschke.
Berlin Metropolis: Jews and the New Culture, 1890-1918 by Emily D. Bilski
One knows one has entered a city when one sees a synagogue, The Great Synagogue in Danzig:
Image


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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#123

Post by ColinWright » 28 Nov 2017, 01:19

wm wrote:More from Berlin:
In the heat of a polemic on the sudden prominence of the Jews in the urban landscape of Germany the nineteenth-century historian Heinrich von Treitschke - who took a decidedly negative view of the Jews' embourgroisement - is reported to have snapped that one knows one has entered a city when one sees a synagogue.
This ironic comment was an oblique reference to Berlin's elegant Oranienburger Strasse synagogue, whose towering gilded dome, crowned with a Star of David, claimed a commanding position in the city's skyline.
In the presence of Chancellor Bismarck and a legion of Berlin's notables, the splendid house of worship was dedicated in September 1866. Just a few days later, the city would celebrate the triumphant procession of Prussia's troops returning from their victorious battles against Austria, concluding a war that heralded the unification of Germany under the tutelage of Prussia and the royal house of the Hohenzollern. The dedication of the synagogue thus marked both the emergence of Berlin as the prosperous capital of the new state - the Second German Empire - and the coming of age of the city's Jewish community, whose rapid growth was prominently associated with the city's meteoric rise from a provincial backwater to a vibrant metropolis.
Yes, but. Notice that Treitschke apparently didn't express any desire to exterminate or even expel the Jews. If anything, from what I know of Wilhelmine Germany, Poles and Catholics were much bigger bugbears.

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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#124

Post by CroGer » 28 Nov 2017, 02:59

ColinWright wrote:
wm wrote:More from Berlin:
In the heat of a polemic on the sudden prominence of the Jews in the urban landscape of Germany the nineteenth-century historian Heinrich von Treitschke - who took a decidedly negative view of the Jews' embourgroisement - is reported to have snapped that one knows one has entered a city when one sees a synagogue.
This ironic comment was an oblique reference to Berlin's elegant Oranienburger Strasse synagogue, whose towering gilded dome, crowned with a Star of David, claimed a commanding position in the city's skyline.
In the presence of Chancellor Bismarck and a legion of Berlin's notables, the splendid house of worship was dedicated in September 1866. Just a few days later, the city would celebrate the triumphant procession of Prussia's troops returning from their victorious battles against Austria, concluding a war that heralded the unification of Germany under the tutelage of Prussia and the royal house of the Hohenzollern. The dedication of the synagogue thus marked both the emergence of Berlin as the prosperous capital of the new state - the Second German Empire - and the coming of age of the city's Jewish community, whose rapid growth was prominently associated with the city's meteoric rise from a provincial backwater to a vibrant metropolis.
Yes, but. Notice that Treitschke apparently didn't express any desire to exterminate or even expel the Jews. If anything, from what I know of Wilhelmine Germany, Poles and Catholics were much bigger bugbears.

On January 1939 Hitler famously said:
If international financial Jewry in and outside Europe succeeds in plunging the peoples once more into a world war, the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth and thus the victory of Judaism, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe. "
Hitler believed in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. He believed that jews were subversive elements, that they can't be assimilated, and that they were behind the Bolshevik revolution.


I found an article, a review of the book "The anti-Semitism of the Nazis: Fight against the "Jewish world conspiracy"" by Wolfram Meyer zu Uptrup.
The author quotes the entry in the diary entry of Victor Klemperer on April 25, 1933: "The fate of the Hitler movement is unquestionably in the hands of the Jewish cause." I do not understand why they placed this program so centrally in. They will be destroyed by it, but we are probably with them. "


A separate chapter deals with "Interpretations of National Socialist Anti-Semitism".
Jews reacted differently to the confrontation with anti-Semitism during the Weimar period. "The first did not feel concerned because they believed that anti-Semitism was directed only at others, such as the Eastern Jews, or only in an abstract sense against Judaism in general, thus differentiating anti-Semitism or attacking it. Others saw the guilt in anti-Semitism partially in the Jews themselves, who had not yet sufficiently integrated and assimilated. Finally, anti-Semitism was understood as a phenomenon that only occurred in marginalized groups, one felt only contempt for the fanatical outsiders. In this way many Jews seem to have perceived the National Socialists in the 1920s. "

(...)
Intellectuals and especially writers seem to have largely underestimated Hitler's anti-Semitism until the 1930s.

Heinrich Mann published in 1933 in Amsterdam "Der Haß", an analysis of National Socialism. He saw in anti-Semitism "a mistake in the inner balance of a nation". Anti-Semitism marginalizes the Jews, and "that is, in reality, they should die of hunger, an equally easy and effective way of getting rid of a surplus population!" But all of this only makes sense with regard to the Nazi-planned war: "For reasons of internal politics, one can not hate other groups of one's own nation so monstrously, for which it is necessary to regard them as accomplices of foreign countries and as the embodied ones Resistance to the desire for war, of which one is obsessed. "

The author pays tribute to the Viennese Irene Harand, who wrote a clairvoyant book in 1935, in which she drew attention to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the special nature of Nazi anti-Semitism. Harand was convinced that the National Socialist propaganda had brought "millions of votes" with the message of the "Protocols" of the NSDAP, and recognized in National Socialism a murderous consequence that was not harmless, but the "death sentence on millions of people" means.

Sebastian Haffner realized in 1939 that the National Socialists "trained the Germans to persecute and exterminate the Jews throughout the world".

[...]

"To many professional groups of this elite, anti-Semitic policies after 1933 [and 1938 KP] offered advantages because it drove Jewish competitors out of their profession."

An important role was played by "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" about which Hitler said: "How much the whole existence of this people [the Jews] is based on an ongoing lie becomes incomparably clear in the protocols so hugely hated by the Jews. They are supposed to be based on a "forgery", the best [...] proof that they are genuine, what many Jews unconsciously do is deliberately clarified here, but that's what matters. Regardless out of whose Jew's head these revelations originate from, it is decisive that they expose the essence and activity of the Jewish people in an almost terrifying sense of security and make it clear in their inner contexts and in their ultimate final goals. "

Even in the years of the Second World War, Hitler was still convinced that the protocols could "claim absolute authenticity," as Joseph Goebbels reported, who was also convinced of the truth of the content of the Protocols and their usefulness for National Socialist propaganda.

The author also documents the "anti-Semitic propaganda for the Wehrmacht". "The Soldier in the West," for example, proclaimed on January 21, 1941, "With the outbreak of this war [...] has struck the last hour of Judaism on the continent." The war has already brought Judaism the loss of some positions of power, the European "purification" could, "if one thinks of the parasitic appearance of the Jews - almost a delousing process called. After Stalingrad, anti-Semitic propaganda was intensified many times.

On May 26, 1944, Hitler spoke to the generals and officers of the Wehrmacht about the murder of the European Jews: "By removing the Jew, I have eliminated in Germany the possibility of any revolutionary nucleus formation or germ cell formation. One could say couldn't you have made it easier - or not easier, then everything else would have been more complicated - but could it be solve more humane? [...]. " At least part of the Wehrmacht leadership appeared to at least tacitly approved Hitler's policy because of this reason, nothing was known about a protest for this "removal of the Jews", that at least some of the officers present had to know that there was a genocide.

When describing the enemy in the manner of the anti-Semitic model of conspiracy, as Hitler and Nazi propaganda did, a steadily progressive radicalization of a policy based on this model was the logical consequence, ranging from the idea of ​​an Enlightenment over the struggle to annihilation , Because, according to Hitler's conviction, the Jews of the world were his enemies, and the Allies also used them for their own purposes, his policy was only the consequence of the murder of all these Jews, whom he identified as enemies.

The study ends in 1945. Unfortunately, even after this delusion of a "Jewish world conspiracy" was and continues to spread.
The author forgets that there was a lot that intensified the violence against jews:

The Bolshevik Revolution was considered a jewish conspiracy.
Many leaders of communist revolutionaries between 1918-1923 were jewish, in Germany and other countries, like Hungary.
The soviet propagandist Ilja Ehrenburg certainly threw gasoline into the fire with his anti-german propaganda.

Wikipedia on Ehrenburg:
Ehrenburg was active in war journalism throughout World War II. As a consequence, he is one of many Soviet writers, along with Konstantin Simonov and Aleksey Surkov, who have been accused by many of "[lending] their literary talents to the hate campaign" against Germans during World War II.[2] His article "Kill" published in 1942 — when German troops were deeply within Soviet territory — became a widely publicized example of this campaign, along with the poem "Kill him!" by Simonov.[3][4] In "Kill", Ehrenburg wrote: "We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day... Do not count days; do not count miles. Count only the number of Germans you have killed."
Then in the USA, you had writings like "Germany must perish!" by the american jew Theodore Newman Kaufman in 1941.
The Nazi Party used the book, written by a Jewish author, to support their argument that Jews were plotting against their country.
Kaufman advocated the mass extermination through forced sterilization of the German people and the territorial dismemberment of Germany after an Allied victory in World War II.[6]
The "final Solution" was a decision made - if i remember it correctly - of January 1942.
So it coincided with a soviet jews writing about mass murdering germans, and an american jew fantasizing of the annihilation of the entire german people.

The leader if the Police Battalion 101, assigned to shoot all jews unable to work in Lublin, referred to the allied terror bombing of german cities, and said something like "They kill our women and children, we kill their women and children". So some connected the war to a jewish conspiracy against them.

So simply: for the Nazis, the jews were subversive elements, with a plan for world domination.
Paranoia can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The jews certainly didn't want to wage a war of annihilation on Germany. Many german jews were patriotic, Walther Rathenau kept Germany in WW1.

What happened? Turmoil. Hitler's campaign programm in 1932 didn't include a world war or extermination camps. He was underestimated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... st_Program

But the actions of the Nazis created things like the writings of Ehrenburg and Kaufman. So the Nazi's believe in a jewish war against Germany created one.
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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#125

Post by Gorque » 28 Nov 2017, 03:33

ColinWright wrote:
Gorque wrote:From what I am gathering is that you haven't read the book, but have already rendered a verdict upon it. Alright then.
You have a point; but I have read other books in the genre, and it does sound like Kershaw is following more or less the same path.

Your remark fills me with a certain hopelessness. Yes, you're right, and yes, I should read Kershaw, but I've only so much time, and I've a dark suspicion that I'll find exactly what I expect to find. These people have to toe the line; look at what happened to David Irving, who, once upon a time, was a respected popular historian. Even a respected figure such as Ernst Nolte seems to have come in for quite a bit of abuse when he dared to deviate from the acceptable path:

'...Most historians in West Germany and virtually all historians outside Germany condemned Nolte's interpretation as factually incorrect, and as coming dangerously close to justifying the Holocaust.[43] Many historians, such as Steven T. Katz, claimed that Nolte’s “Age of Genocide” concept “trivialized” the Holocaust by reducing it to one of just many 20th century genocides.[44] A common line of criticism was that Nazi crimes, above all the Holocaust, were singular and unique in their nature, and should not be loosely analogized to the crimes of others...'

This gets close to Gilad Atzmon's concept of the Holocaust -- and by extension, the evil of the Third Reich -- as having become a religious rather than a historical precept. A historical concept we can discuss, debate, and even revise, if it seems best. A religious precept is not subject to criticism; if you disagree, you're a heretic. Thou shalt conform to the following twelve precepts...

If Kershaw said Germans were mighty fine folks and they thought Hitler was mighty fine, he'd be for it. So whatever the truth might be, we know what it would behoove Kershaw to claim it was.

The Nazis were awful, and if they weren't already thoroughly demonized, it would be right and proper that they should be. However, we all already know (or should know) that. Do we have to keep brushing up and perfecting the image of evil incarnate in all respects, or can we start to understand what it was like and why they did what they did? What are we so afraid of?

The depressing thing is that having made the Nazis into this improbable cartoon, we fail to realize it when we start treading the same path again. 'Of course we're not Nazis; they were monsters.'

Right. I don't want to wreck the thread by raising someone's hackles, but I see it happening all over, and in some places more than others -- and before you rub my fur the wrong way, don't bring up Trump. I voted for him.
Well, unless you read this study, you'll never know what it contains. I tried. Moving on.

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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#126

Post by ColinWright » 28 Nov 2017, 04:51

CroGer wrote:...A separate chapter deals with "Interpretations of National Socialist Anti-Semitism".
Jews reacted differently to the confrontation with anti-Semitism during the Weimar period. "The first did not feel concerned because they believed that anti-Semitism was directed only at others, such as the Eastern Jews, or only in an abstract sense against Judaism in general, thus differentiating anti-Semitism or attacking it. Others saw the guilt in anti-Semitism partially in the Jews themselves, who had not yet sufficiently integrated and assimilated. Finally, anti-Semitism was understood as a phenomenon that only occurred in marginalized groups, one felt only contempt for the fanatical outsiders. In this way many Jews seem to have perceived the National Socialists in the 1920s. "
Note that in the 1920's, the Nazis were fanatical outsiders. No rational person should have worried about them. It's a bit like planning for a meteor strike: are you going to do that, or are you going to get on with your life?

(...)
Intellectuals and especially writers seem to have largely underestimated Hitler's anti-Semitism until the 1930s.
Yeah. Someone -- my recollection is that it was Hans Frank, of all people -- kept reassuring his correspondents that the anti-Semitism was only a momentary tactical maneuver, that it would pass.

People will decide 'he doesn't really mean that' if it's awkward to consider that perhaps he really does mean that.

Flashback to 2002, and the debate over whether to invade Iraq. Personally and at the time, I thought we should: Saddam Hussein was a brutal, murderous tyrant. When Paul Wolfowitz proclaimed that the goal was to create 'a secular democracy with a tilt towards Israel' -- a transparent recipe for the disaster that in fact did unfold -- I decided 'he doesn't really mean that.'

Well, 'he' did mean it, and so did Hitler.

Heinrich Mann published in 1933 in Amsterdam "Der Haß", an analysis of National Socialism. He saw in anti-Semitism "a mistake in the inner balance of a nation". Anti-Semitism marginalizes the Jews, and "that is, in reality, they should die of hunger, an equally easy and effective way of getting rid of a surplus population!" But all of this only makes sense with regard to the Nazi-planned war: "For reasons of internal politics, one can not hate other groups of one's own nation so monstrously, for which it is necessary to regard them as accomplices of foreign countries and as the embodied ones Resistance to the desire for war, of which one is obsessed. "

The author pays tribute to the Viennese Irene Harand, who wrote a clairvoyant book in 1935, in which she drew attention to the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the special nature of Nazi anti-Semitism. Harand was convinced that the National Socialist propaganda had brought "millions of votes" with the message of the "Protocols" of the NSDAP, and recognized in National Socialism a murderous consequence that was not harmless, but the "death sentence on millions of people" means.

Sebastian Haffner realized in 1939 that the National Socialists "trained the Germans to persecute and exterminate the Jews throughout the world".
Meh. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. If I predict a crash every time the market hiccups, eventually I'll be right. Was there really reason to think in 1935 that Hitler was going to perpetrate atrocities on a scale not seen since Genghis Khan? After all, this was Europe, in the twentieth century.

One might as well predict a religious theocracy arising in the US and conducting witch burnings. Of course, if it happens, and I said it would in 2017, I'll look clairvoyant.

[...]

On May 26, 1944, Hitler spoke to the generals and officers of the Wehrmacht about the murder of the European Jews: "By removing the Jew, I have eliminated in Germany the possibility of any revolutionary nucleus formation or germ cell formation. One could say couldn't you have made it easier - or not easier, then everything else would have been more complicated - but could it be solve more humane? [...]. " At least part of the Wehrmacht leadership appeared to at least tacitly approved Hitler's policy because of this reason, nothing was known about a protest for this "removal of the Jews", that at least some of the officers present had to know that there was a genocide.
Did Hitler say this? David Irving et al have made hay out of the fact that Hitler is supposedly not on record as either ordering the Holocaust or even being aware of it -- and if this quote was authentic, one would think it would have been offered in rebuttal.

When describing the enemy in the manner of the anti-Semitic model of conspiracy, as Hitler and Nazi propaganda did, a steadily progressive radicalization of a policy based on this model was the logical consequence, ranging from the idea of ​​an Enlightenment over the struggle to annihilation , Because, according to Hitler's conviction, the Jews of the world were his enemies, and the Allies also used them for their own purposes, his policy was only the consequence of the murder of all these Jews, whom he identified as enemies.

The study ends in 1945. Unfortunately, even after this delusion of a "Jewish world conspiracy" was and continues to spread.
It doesn't do the Jews any good, but people are prone to conspiracy theories. Ever heard anyone go on about the Trilateral Commission? Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy, the Kennedy assassination was a conspiracy, 9/11 was a conspiracy. Gas prices are a conspiracy. The German Ardennes offensive was a conspiracy. We knew, but wanted to lure the Germans in.

So if dire and incomprehensible changes were happening, of course it was a conspiracy. And what's an alien group that could be engaged in this conspiracy?



The author forgets that there was a lot that intensified the violence against jews:

The Bolshevik Revolution was considered a jewish conspiracy.
Many leaders of communist revolutionaries between 1918-1923 were jewish, in Germany and other countries, like Hungary.
The soviet propagandist Ilja Ehrenburg certainly threw gasoline into the fire with his anti-german propaganda.

Wikipedia on Ehrenburg:
Ehrenburg was active in war journalism throughout World War II. As a consequence, he is one of many Soviet writers, along with Konstantin Simonov and Aleksey Surkov, who have been accused by many of "[lending] their literary talents to the hate campaign" against Germans during World War II.[2] His article "Kill" published in 1942 — when German troops were deeply within Soviet territory — became a widely publicized example of this campaign, along with the poem "Kill him!" by Simonov.[3][4] In "Kill", Ehrenburg wrote: "We shall kill. If you have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day... Do not count days; do not count miles. Count only the number of Germans you have killed."
Then in the USA, you had writings like "Germany must perish!" by the american jew Theodore Newman Kaufman in 1941.
The Nazi Party used the book, written by a Jewish author, to support their argument that Jews were plotting against their country.
Kaufman advocated the mass extermination through forced sterilization of the German people and the territorial dismemberment of Germany after an Allied victory in World War II.[6]
The "final Solution" was a decision made - if i remember it correctly - of January 1942.
So it coincided with a soviet jews writing about mass murdering germans, and an american jew fantasizing of the annihilation of the entire german people.
The difficulty here is that the effect is preceding the cause. The Germans decided on at least a murderous campaign against Soviet Jewry prior to 22 June 1941, and mounted it virtually immediately upon entering the Soviet Union. Most of the 'provocations' you cite came after that fact, not before.

In any case, it is the act of a disturbed individual to attack others because they share some characteristic with those who have attacked him. If a black mugs me, it is not rational for me to go find another black and shoot him. The Nazis could have thought whatever they pleased about the Jews of the United States. The Jews of the Western Soviet Union obviously weren't responsible for their acts.

The leader if the Police Battalion 101, assigned to shoot all jews unable to work in Lublin, referred to the allied terror bombing of german cities, and said something like "They kill our women and children, we kill their women and children". So some connected the war to a jewish conspiracy against them.
Yeah, but. That rationalization was offered more in a spirit of moral desperation than conviction. In point of fact, that leader then went on to explicitly state that anyone who wanted to opt out of the killings was free to do so. He was absolutely appalled by the order he had been given.

So simply: for the Nazis, the jews were subversive elements, with a plan for world domination.
Paranoia can turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The jews certainly didn't want to wage a war of annihilation on Germany. Many german jews were patriotic, Walther Rathenau kept Germany in WW1.

What happened? Turmoil. Hitler's campaign programm in 1932 didn't include a world war or extermination camps. He was underestimated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... st_Program
Hitler wasn't perfectly rational. He appears to have genuinely not wanted the war he got, and he also appears to have convinced himself it was ''the Jews' who had brought it about. People often engage in extremely provocative behavior and then blame their victims for the results.

But the actions of the Nazis created things like the writings of Ehrenburg and Kaufman. So the Nazi's believe in a jewish war against Germany created one.
Meh. Again. While it's certainly true that American Jewry was hostile to Hitler, I'm not sure that was particularly true of any other group of Jews -- or to be precise, I'm skeptical that any other group of Jews was able to exert significant influence. After all, Ehrenburg's Soviet Union had been allied with Germany until 22 June 1941. Moreover, gentile Russians also seem to have been pretty hostile towards Germans. Ehrenburg probably would have said about what he said even if he had been gentile.

As to America, the effect of the particular animus of our Jews can be exaggerated. I was glancing at some excerpts from How the Jews Defeated Hitler, a modern attempt to refute the notion of Jewish passivity in the face of Hitler's onslaught. The author refers to some group called 'Freedom First' that advocated entering the war -- the implication being that it was Jewish-inspired and driven.

I took a look. Many or most of the major figures in the group -- too many for window dressing -- were gentiles drawn from the East Coast Establishment. It wasn't as if American Jews were the only group who felt we should intervene, and while Jews had more influence in the US than they did elsewhere, it was a long way from the situation then to the giddy heights the Israel lobby has reached now.

It's a curious mirror image of the Holocaust. If the Nazis never could have carried out the Holocaust absent the at least partial acquiescence of the mass of Germans, American Jews could never have pushed for intervention if many American gentiles hadn't agreed with them.

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Re: Jewish wealth in 1933's Germany

#127

Post by David Thompson » 28 Nov 2017, 06:16

The thread having lost whatever utility it might have had, it's locked.

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