Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

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Cantankerous
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Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#1

Post by Cantankerous » 27 Jun 2020, 02:29

I know that Holocaust historian Alan Steinweiss has flatly rejected the argument by Ben Carson in his 2015 book A More Perfect Union that Nazi gun control laws played a role in facilitating the Holocaust, pointing out that Nazi gun control laws outlawed gun ownership for Jews but not pure "Aryan" Germans. However, did any "Aryan" Germans in World War II dare to take up arms against SS and Gestapo officials in order to bash Hitler for deriding Slavs as subhuman and communism as a Jewish invention, given that the USSR agreed with Marx that Judaism, like other religions, was "opium of the masses"?

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wm
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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#2

Post by wm » 27 Jun 2020, 09:46

That known historian doesn't seem to understand human nature at all. I must remember to avoid his books.

The Germans weren't going to die for the Jews or the Poles (i.e., their enemies) when their sons died by thousands every day defending Germany, and they themselves died by thousands in bombings.

Especially that they knew little about atrocities committed by their security forces and the Army.
And if they did they accepted them as a necessary evil in evil times.
Last edited by wm on 27 Jun 2020, 10:37, edited 1 time in total.


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wm
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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#3

Post by wm » 27 Jun 2020, 09:52

And btw Nazi gun control laws really had no impact whatsoever on anything.
The laws were only in force in Germany and Germans Jews were about 3 percent of all victims.

And the idea that (mostly urban, bourgeoisie) German Jews could have defended themselves against the Gestapo and the Wehrmacht with puny revolvers (the most popular self-defense weapon at that time) is beyond absurd.

Most Jewish victims lived in Poland and the USSR. In Poland.
There were no gun laws worth mentioning in Poland (but still you couldn't defend themselves against the Gestapo and the Wehrmacht with puny revolvers), but there were in the USSR. The Soviet population was basically disarmed by their government.
So although Nazi gun control laws had no impact whatsoever the Soviet laws had.

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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#4

Post by Futurist » 28 Jun 2020, 23:09

wm wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 09:46
That known historian doesn't seem to understand human nature at all. I must remember to avoid his books.

The Germans weren't going to die for the Jews or the Poles (i.e., their enemies) when their sons died by thousands every day defending Germany, and they themselves died by thousands in bombings.

Especially that they knew little about atrocities committed by their security forces and the Army.
And if they did they accepted them as a necessary evil in evil times.
wm, do you seem to recall any Hitler quote (I think to Baldur von Shirach's wife) about how the Holocaust is allegedly necessary in order to preserve Europe's racial balance due to so many German men dying in combat during World War II? I suppose that a similar attitude could have been seen here--as in, if "we Germans" are going to suffer, why exactly shouldn't "our enemies" the Poles and the Jews likewise suffer?

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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#5

Post by wm » 29 Jun 2020, 22:44

There is no Hiter quote with the "Holocaust" in it. He never said anything about the Holocaust.

He expressed his concern a few times about losing the best Germans by millions at war so, in the end, only the low quality "common scum" would remain.

The enemies were to get it first, that was the policy and I think a few his own quotes to that effect could be found.

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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#6

Post by Mori » 04 Jul 2020, 11:37

wm wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 22:44
There is no Hiter quote with the "Holocaust" in it. He never said anything about the Holocaust.
Only because he got careful after the protests against the Aktion T4, his decision to patients of mental institutions. He then understood his mass murder decisions required secrecy. He had one-on-one meetings with Himmler, without any other witness.

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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#7

Post by Mori » 04 Jul 2020, 11:40

wm wrote:
27 Jun 2020, 09:46
Especially that they knew little about atrocities committed by their security forces and the Army.
And if they did they accepted them as a necessary evil in evil times.
The Germans knew a lot, if nothing because so many of them were soldiers and thus direct witnesses (or actors) of said atrocities. That they repressed the memories did not mean they knew little.

This has long been established.

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Re: Impact of Nazi gun control laws on "Aryan" Germans

#8

Post by wm » 07 Jul 2020, 21:48

The Germans knew about individual cases but nobody had a bird view of the genocidal operations.

For example in Sobibór (about 180,000 gassed) a dozen or so Germans served. Such people knew what the Holocaust was about but their small number and their understandable secrecy meant their knowledge never reached the Germans.

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