The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Hi wm - your pic of the road lay out and the Heydrich bend in 1974 shows that there is little change from 1942 to the then (1974) road layout. However. the buildings are showing signs of significant changes. I have been comparing this with your excellent "then and now" aerial pics on page 13. That presentation was quite amazing.
Another matter I am getting quite confused at to the purpose of the duct tape on the grenade. History 1 says that the tape is sticky and thus cannot unwind itself. Whereas wm's picture above shows a safety tape that does unwind itself. As previously mentioned I have no knowledge on ordnance whatsoever. However, I would have assumed that the grenade was armed via that black knob on the top and thereafter you heaved the thing, with it exploding on impact. Am I correct in this assumption?
Another matter I am getting quite confused at to the purpose of the duct tape on the grenade. History 1 says that the tape is sticky and thus cannot unwind itself. Whereas wm's picture above shows a safety tape that does unwind itself. As previously mentioned I have no knowledge on ordnance whatsoever. However, I would have assumed that the grenade was armed via that black knob on the top and thereafter you heaved the thing, with it exploding on impact. Am I correct in this assumption?
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
The more or less naked explosive charge was wrapped up tightly in layers of tape, the tape was the shell of the grenade. If that tape was sticky or not I don't know.
The safety tape was certainly non-sticky, and it was there to arm the grenade.
The black knob was there to hold the safety tape firmly in place, without it the safety tape shouldn't unwind itself, the spinning motion of an airborne grenade was required for that, but the black knob was certainly a good safety measure.
What tape was there at 25 is a little uncertain, maybe the wrapping tape which protected the explosive charge - a correct description depended on the competency of of the policeman who made the diagram.
This shows the proper technique when throwing one of those grenades, it needs to spin to help the safety tape unwind properly, I shouldn't have said it would unwind itself, without spinning it wasn't possible. from: Heydrich - konečné řešení
The safety tape was certainly non-sticky, and it was there to arm the grenade.
The black knob was there to hold the safety tape firmly in place, without it the safety tape shouldn't unwind itself, the spinning motion of an airborne grenade was required for that, but the black knob was certainly a good safety measure.
What tape was there at 25 is a little uncertain, maybe the wrapping tape which protected the explosive charge - a correct description depended on the competency of of the policeman who made the diagram.
This shows the proper technique when throwing one of those grenades, it needs to spin to help the safety tape unwind properly, I shouldn't have said it would unwind itself, without spinning it wasn't possible. from: Heydrich - konečné řešení
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
As I mentioned before. The # 25 in the drawing is "Isolierband von Bombe = Duc tape/electrical tape from the bomb". It can only be from the windings around the bomb body. But found another interesting part [# 11-12] in the drawing what lead me to translate the drawing illustrations.Paulheald wrote:[...] Another matter I am getting quite confused at to the purpose of the duct tape on the grenade. History 1 says that the tape is sticky and thus cannot unwind itself. Whereas wm's picture above shows a safety tape that does unwind itself. [...]
Only in English because the German in the drawing is very good readable.
#1: Cable [wire] and photo in garden
#2: Coat
#3: Submachine gun
#4 - 5: Parts from the mudguard
#6: Wood lath from the car
#7 - 8: Sheet metal parts from the mudguard
#9: Sheet metal parts from the mudguard
#10: Smallest sheet metal parts
#11 -12: Tape with which the safety pin has been attached/fixated
#13: Wooden parts from the autobody
#14: Not fired Geco [= name of the producer] round caliber 7.65 mm [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9721mm_Parabellum]
#15: Sheet metal part (most likely from the car)
#16: Bomb fragment/-s
#17: Parts of Bakelite from the bomb plug
#18: Part of rubber, apparently from the car
#19 - 22: Smallest bomb fragments
#23: Upholstery from the car
#24: Upholstery and wooden parts from the car
#25: Electrical tape from the bomb
#26: Witness Helene Pechar
#27: 1 cartridge Kynoch [name of the producer] cal. 7.65 mm
#28: 3 cartridges Kynoch [name of the producer] cal. 7.65 mm
#29: On this place the bycicle was reclined against the pole with which one of the perpetrators fleed towards Lieben [=Libeň, district of Prague]
#30: Here the ladies' bicycle which reclined against the lighting pole was sized with bag, explosive device and detachable box magazine for the submachine gun
#31: On this place the towards Libeň escaped perpetrator throw away a briefcase with an explosive device and flat cap
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Many thanks history 1 for your English translation of the items in the drawing - much appreciated. Thanks also wm for your further explanation as to the mechanics of the bomb. It all helps us to understand exactly what happened on that fateful day back in 1942.
If the moviemakers ever decide to do a rehash of this dramatic event, then they will certainly have a great deal more material to call upon than in the previous versions. Mind you, once Hollywood takes over any resemblance to the truth is likely to be purely coincidental!
If the moviemakers ever decide to do a rehash of this dramatic event, then they will certainly have a great deal more material to call upon than in the previous versions. Mind you, once Hollywood takes over any resemblance to the truth is likely to be purely coincidental!
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Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Does anyone know if there is a marker to identify the mass grave where Gabcik and Kubis are believed to rest? I have searched internet but cant find anything in English language.Potsdamerplatz wrote:Adam Carr wrote:Questions:
The answer to your first question is in the article below:
Experts find wartime paratroopers' grave
By CTK / Published 4 October 2007
Prague, Oct 3 (CTK) - Jan Kubis and Jozef Gabcik, the wartime Czechoslovak heroes who murdered Nazi Reichsprotector Reinhard Heydrich, are buried in anonymous pits at Prague's Dablice cemetery, a year-long research has confirmed, the daily Mlada fronta Dnes (MfD) writes Wednesday.
Thanks in advance.
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Yes, it's quite sad that there is no proper mark for the final resting place of these two heroes. As I understand it Heydrich was buried with full military honours in the Invaliden Cemetary in Berlin. A much more ostentatious grave was planned, but never carried out. The Russians destroyed whatever was left of the grave after the war so thart it did not become a Neo-Nazi shrine.
However, there was a much more grandiose memorial in Prague on the site of the assassination attempt. I suppose that this was similarly destroyed after the war and whatever was left, must have got swallowed up by the changes in the roadway. I can't pinpoint exactly where this Heydrich memorial was sited from the photograph that is attached. Maybe those, who who are very familiar with this area, have some ideas - over to you....
However, there was a much more grandiose memorial in Prague on the site of the assassination attempt. I suppose that this was similarly destroyed after the war and whatever was left, must have got swallowed up by the changes in the roadway. I can't pinpoint exactly where this Heydrich memorial was sited from the photograph that is attached. Maybe those, who who are very familiar with this area, have some ideas - over to you....
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
I think it is obvious the Germans reused a part of the fence surrounding the Institute.
There, because the road is not level the stone base of each segement of the fence begins on the ground level and ends about a half a meter above (from right to left).
There are only few bases that don't follow this design, behind Heinrich's car and on the left of it.
On the left of the monument there is the most prominent of them, shown by the arrow below.
This is the only place where the street is sufficiently sloped to require such a difference in height of the soldiers' pedestals, and simultaneously there is a prominent, level stone base on the left. The tall thin tree behind the monument is visible below.
The large house with the balcony on the right is actually masked by the monument or the trees on the picture above, and not visible.
I suppose the monument was on the right of the downward arrow: the two houses, top right on the first picture, can be seen here: source: atuálně.cz
There, because the road is not level the stone base of each segement of the fence begins on the ground level and ends about a half a meter above (from right to left).
There are only few bases that don't follow this design, behind Heinrich's car and on the left of it.
On the left of the monument there is the most prominent of them, shown by the arrow below.
This is the only place where the street is sufficiently sloped to require such a difference in height of the soldiers' pedestals, and simultaneously there is a prominent, level stone base on the left. The tall thin tree behind the monument is visible below.
The large house with the balcony on the right is actually masked by the monument or the trees on the picture above, and not visible.
I suppose the monument was on the right of the downward arrow: the two houses, top right on the first picture, can be seen here: source: atuálně.cz
Last edited by wm on 20 Oct 2013, 20:46, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
There is a small problem, behind the monument there are no trees, but all the pictures taken after the assassination show there were a few large trees there.
Fortunately, it seems the aerial photo from 1953 shows that indeed the trees were cut down, maybe because they wanted better light for the monument. from: Mapová aplikace Kontaminovaná místa
Fortunately, it seems the aerial photo from 1953 shows that indeed the trees were cut down, maybe because they wanted better light for the monument. from: Mapová aplikace Kontaminovaná místa
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Thank you so much wm for your amazing knowledge of this area and your explanatory pictures. However, I am still a little bit confused regarding the 1953 aerial photograph and the trees. Would you be kind enough to put an arrow on this last photograph to show the site of the wartime Heydrich memorial please?
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
I have had a closer look at the 1953 aerial photograph wherein I was finding difficulty in orientating the postion of the wartime monument. Would I be correct in my assumption that the tall thin tree, shown in your previous pictures, is the one that I have indicated on the attached photo?
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Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
I suppose the monument was there:
and the field of view of the camera was something like this, it's hard to do it right because all the photos were taken at angle and are distorted:
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
Many thanks, once again, wm. I had a close look at your "then and now" aerial photos on page 13 and I cannot see any sign of the tall thin tree - so it must have vanished under the road modifications. I found those "then and now" alternating aerial photographs very useful and informative - thank you once again - a very clever presentation.
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
In 1974 still was there, but unfortunately it was too close to the street to have a chance of surviving...
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
I don't understand.In 1974 still was there, but unfortunately it was too close to the street to have a chance of surviving...
What thing was there ?
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "
Re: The place where Heydrich´s attempt was.
My bet it on the 'tall thin tree'von thoma wrote: don't understand.
What thing was there ?