Nazi Treasure

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Karl Schoepke
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Nazi Treasure

Post by Karl Schoepke » 04 Dec 2003 01:11

Does anyone know about the vast treasure hidden in the Alpine Redoubt sometme near the end of WW2. Supposedly The SS buried loot/booty all over So. Germany. I read in a book by Glenn Infield that tells of a treasure unearthed on an SS equestrian farm. History or myth has it that the SS carved-out a large chamber in the Salzburgs for weapons, documents, precious art, gold, etc. Can anyone elaborate on this? Karl

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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 04 Dec 2003 01:17

All these stories of treasures especially around my city of Salzburg turned out to be fakes and wishfull thinking. I don´t know which "treasure" you speak of but there are many, many fairytales. Every now and then such stories surface....
At these sites where someone "reported" treasures just ammo, weapons, documents and fake money (eg. Toplitzsee) showed up.

\Christoph

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Steve Arthur
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Perhaps Bad Tolz?

Post by Steve Arthur » 04 Dec 2003 05:31

When I served in the Army in the 80s I was stationed at Bad Tölz which you all know was the primary SS school. The Kasern (then called Flint Kasern) and the town for that matter, were honeycombed with tunnels. Under the kasern there were approx ten levels and after the US Army traded the FRG kasern for kasern an attempt was made to clear the lower levels of tunnels. As it goes, the engineers lost a lot of guys to booby traps attempting to clear those tunnels. The powers that be decided it was not worth the cost and flooded all levels below level five. I can verify these tunnels were sealed because as an MP I was sent down in them one night after one of the ground level entrances were found open (terrorist concerns) We spent the entire 8 hour shift going from level to level and through every dinky room down there. It was like a trip back through time. Most of the signs and etc were the WWII era originals. At any rate it makes one wonder why so much effort was made to booby trap these lower levels if not to protect them from falling into the "wrong hands" Then of course if you add the Patton conspiracy to this....well now, the stuff movies are made of. Anyway, that's my two cents worth...I had a hell of a great time that night. I knew this kid named Stephan who wanted to take me through the tunnels located under Wulfstadthausen (I think I spelled that right) I guess there was an aircraft assembly factory located there and he had found a way into them...I never got the chance to go.

Best Wishes
Steve

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 04 Dec 2003 12:31

did they ever find any trace of the "amber room", the amber walled room the nazis boxed up and stole from the russian winter palace?

i know they russian government just completed a resoration of that room in the winter palace at enormous expense.

the last i heard they were searching a lake in austria for the crates.

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 04 Dec 2003 12:34

steve, were there any desks, chairs, cabinets left in the lower levels that you searched? was there still electricity down below, or did you have to use flashlights to search the lower levels?

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Steve Arthur
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Post by Steve Arthur » 04 Dec 2003 15:38

Yes there were lights in the lower levels though some of the rooms did not have lights. I do not believe we ran across any chairs or desks from the period, yet I must confess we did not have enough time to go through each room. It was sort of sppoky down there at times and around 3 AM you get a litte jumpy. We had the hell scared out of when on one level we rounded a corner and ran into a German worker. You don't really expect to run into anyone else that time of night. The Special Forces teams that were stationed there continued to use lower as storage and training rooms. One of the most interesting aspects of these tunnels were the boot tracks left in the concrete. It would seem that the concrete had not fully set up and you could see their heel prints and the hob nail marks left behind. One of the tunnels we followed led to an exit that emptied in a small town to the south east of Bad Tölz along the Isar. I was told by one the engineers that another tunnel (one large enough to drive vehicles through) led to Munich.

I had a chance to buy some photos from an American who purchased a photography business in Tölz and came into possession of the original glass negatives of the construction of the SS school. In retrospect, I wish I would have bought the copies. I guess when you're 20 you lack a full appreciation of such things. Maybe I can attribute this to the knowledge that in the eighties Germany would be the focal point of the next war and that we could easily end up as a radioactive glass. So, I spent a lot of time in the beer halls with the German kids I hung around with. I would like to go back a revisit some of these places and search for other areas I have sincew learned of.

Sorry for such a long response, I guess I gave you more than you bargained for.

Best Wishes
Steve :D

Karl Schoepke
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Post by Karl Schoepke » 05 Dec 2003 00:51

Steve: That was great. Was there any graffitti on the walls? Any papers littering the floors? Helmets? Souvenirs of any sort? Karl

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Steve Arthur
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Post by Steve Arthur » 05 Dec 2003 02:32

Karl,

I do recall some names scrawled on some of the walls in what I would have guessed as storage rooms back then. In that respect, the most interesting part were the the advisory stencils from that period that were painted on the walls...and of course the boot prints. By the time I went through those tunnels the Army had already possessed the Kaserne for at least 15 or 20 years. I believe it was taken over in the 60s. (somone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Also, you must remember that Patton used the Kaserne as a HQ, I would bet that the occupying soldiers hauled most of that stuff off.
One of the German kids I was friends with lived in Tegernsee and was a diver. The lake was crystal clear and you could go out on a boat and look down and spot items on the lake's bed. I guess in the closing days of the war those who lived around the lake threw anything into it that could associate them with the Nazis. My friend would often go diving and bring a lot of this stuff up. I managed to come back to the states with some of it. An interesting aside, his father acted as a translator for the Americans during the occupation. He told me that Himmler had a home on Tegernsee (Can anyone else verify this? Is this information correct about the home?) and he managed to latch onto Himmler's cigar box. Yes, I did see it. It was indeed inscribed with Himmler's name on the inside of the lid. He also told me that much of Himmler's items were loaded into a boat and taken out onto the lake and sunk by the Americans. Thomas (the friend of mine) was searching for the boat...I have no idea if he ever found it.

I truly enjoyed my tour in Germany and made a lot of great friends. Because of this, I was able to see some things that others stationed there had no idea of. I wish I could go back in time to those days again..of course armed with more knowledge, and see those things I missed the first time around.

Best Wishes
Steve

:D

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 05 Dec 2003 03:31

i visited france in 2001. in bordeaux there is a nazi submarine base and concrete bunkers all over the city. the base is gigantic, i believe it held 8 u-boats. today it is part museum, part city offices, and part municipal storage facility. there are still some german stencils on the walls, but the nazi emblems were all painted over.

there are german concrete bunkers all over france. there were made to be bomb proof. it would be extremely expensive and time consuming to demolish them, so most have been left standing.

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Steve Arthur
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Post by Steve Arthur » 05 Dec 2003 05:17

I have some photos of bunkers that were located at Grafenwöhr I'll try and locate them back and scan them in and post them tomorrow (I have the scanner on another computer or would just scan them off and send them now.)

If you have photos of the U-Boat pens I would love to see them. I build models as a hobby and have been considering a U-boat pen for my large U-boat kit.

Take care
Steve

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 05 Dec 2003 06:33

i don't own a scanner. the sub base was almost identical to another submarine base in france that spielberg used in the first" raiders of the lost ark" movie to otray a nazi submarine base.

i'll try to track down a web link for the submarine base.

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waffen
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nazi treasure

Post by waffen » 15 Dec 2003 08:34

:D thanks for the info steve on the tunnels, loved concrete those nazis,its sounds like its,secret tunnels all over europe. 8)

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Post by Camp Upshur » 15 Dec 2003 18:40

Steve and All:

Thank you for your interesting post. The topic of tunnels, prisoner's quarters, and treasures located beneath the former Junkerschule Tolz is one which has been of continuing interest to myself.

Is there any specific recollection which can be offered ? I have visited and inspected this former Kaserne many times (including twice this year), traspassed extensively the surrounding environs and have yet to find any vestige other than the underground service corridors housing mostly mechanical and environmental heating / water / waste systems. (which from a mechanical-engineering aspect are /were quite impressive).

The building complex was designed by Alois Degano and constructed by the firm of Griesmeier for 35 mil RM mostly in 1936/1937. My interest is by no means conclusive nor complete but here are some things I have noted thus far:

The building(s) were built prior to the development of the KZ system as any sort of pogrom related death system.

The building(s) were built prior to the invasion of Russia, obviously.

There are anecdotal accounts of Dachau inmates and/or Russian prisoners being used there for basically 'chores'. Although I do not disbelieve this, I have not discovered anything indepedantly to bolster this.

The building(s) are not a tactical fortress or designed to withstand any sort of assault despite their fortress-like appearance (actually the thickness of the walls is basically straw, plastered over which I found interesting).

It is my impression, thus far , that the Schule was not initially designed to house prisoners or maintain any sort of tactical escape systems. Interestingly the Schule was never bombed or damaged despite the complete air supremacy of the Allies.

There is on display on the second deck of the Tolz City Hall, an aerial photo of the construction taken in 1937 which shows the associated excavations incidental to the Schule's construction, It is unremarkable other than showing what is already known.

Two years ago ,on another site-inspection while the gutting of the Schule was fully underway, I befriended the Job-Superintendant who allowed me total access to the underground corridors. At that time they were excavating the portion leading from the main building to the motorpool. It appeared to be unremarkable and there were no multiple levels beneath, although it's construction was typically impressive.

This is not to say that these other thing do not exist. The Job-Superintendant told me that a few weeks prior . a retired American Special Forces Sergeant First Class had shown up and was allowed to dig. The SFC dug just inside the facility, behind the west 'Conical Tower" which define the entrance. The construction workers were amazed and amused at his determination and allowed him to go to it. The SFC found nothing.

If anyone has any further anecdotal info, please pass it on. I will check it out, although it is getting harder now that the transformation is more complete, and there is less confusion to allow an architectural aficionato to 'do his thing'.

Camp Upshur
Last edited by Camp Upshur on 15 Dec 2003 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve Arthur
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Post by Steve Arthur » 15 Dec 2003 19:02

Camp Upshar,

In regards to the tunnels. I'm assuming that your experience was those tunnels that were directly below the complex of the main building or "quad". As I recall access to the rest of these were located at what was then the main power plant to the Kaserne. If this is not accurate please forgive me. It has been almost twenty years and this was a one time exploration. In regards to digging, I think I would have been more inclined to have dug to the south and southeast of the quad area of what was then the golf course. I believe that during its operation this area was a training range. I came to this conclusion after running across a published photo that I could identify as the south side of the main complex with soldiers on a firing line. I'm curious, in a recent photo it appears that the two turrets that flanked the main arch have been removed along with the arch itself. Can you verify this for me? It also appereared as thought the stone wall that ran along the front of the Kaserne has been removed as well. Lastly, what became of the base housing that was located just north of the Kaserne? Do they continue to serve as housing of some type?

Best Wishes
Steve

Kilamar
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Re: Perhaps Bad Tolz?

Post by Kilamar » 15 Dec 2003 19:10

Steve Arthur wrote: Under the kasern there were approx ten levels and after the US Army traded the FRG kasern for kasern an attempt was made to clear the lower levels of tunnels. As it goes, the engineers lost a lot of guys to booby traps attempting to clear those tunnels. The powers that be decided it was not worth the cost and flooded all levels below level five.
I never heard of allied casulties to WW2 booby traps in the 80s.

Kilamar

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