Sorry about this, one more thing.
During our exploration of these tunnels we ran across on that was rather long. we did not follow it because it was getting close to the end of our shift and we would need to report back to the PMO. However, we did ask one the German civilians in the power plant about this tunnel. We were told that it led to the southeast and beyond a smaller town ( I had to look in a diary I kept and the town was called Gaissach (SP?)) He reported that it emptied out someplace further in the mountains. Please understand I have no clue if this is true in regards to where the tunnel led, I took it on faith that he knew what he was talking about because he was a rather old gentleman and I presumed that he would have been around there during the war in one capacity or the other. I also presumed at the time that it may have a connection to the reported tunnel that led to Himmler's home on Tegernsee. Again, this information came from another source and I have no way to verify. Please keep in mind that this was during the Cold War and poking around in places like this was seriously frowned upon. The threat of either Green Peace, Red Army Faction, or the SMLM (Soviet Military Liaison Mission) gaining access to these areas and thus the Kaserne meant that they were highly controled, patroled, and what ever else you may want to add in the security aspect. Remember it was a Special Forces Kaserne.
OK, that's about it......hope I didn't anyone to sleep over this.
Best Wishes
Steve
Nazi Treasure
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Steve Arthur
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Steve Arthur
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Re: Perhaps Bad Tolz?
Kilamar wrote:I never heard of allied casulties to WW2 booby traps in the 80s.Steve Arthur wrote: Under the kasern there were approx ten levels and after the US Army traded the FRG kasern for kasern an attempt was made to clear the lower levels of tunnels. As it goes, the engineers lost a lot of guys to booby traps attempting to clear those tunnels. The powers that be decided it was not worth the cost and flooded all levels below level five.
Kilamar
This did not take place in the 80s, it was when the US took over the Kaserne in the 60s or 70s whenever for sure it took place.
Please let me restate, information like that came from others and there is no way I can verify. All I can be certain of is those areas that I explored.
That information was the result of questions prompted by those thing we seen while in them.
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Camp Upshur
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Steve,
Thanks for your response. I am interested on your experiences and recollections of the then Flint Kaserne. My only active-duty experience there was as a Marine doing 'drops' with the 10th SFG some years ago. At that time I had no sensitivity or appreciation of history or architecture and fully wasted what I now consider a lost opportunity.
In answer to your questions:
The 'Tor' arch was removed some years ago , prior to my renewed interest. BTW was the 'Guard Shack' building in front of the entrance there when you were there ?
The stone wall is mostly gone now , to the best of my recollection. Years ago I removed/ borrowed one of the spiked- steel caps which were atop the wall over by the PT field and actually brought it home on an airliner !
The US Army housing area / school is still existant. However it is occupied by some Germans and some others that I suspect the SS may have used for target practice!
You may not believe this , but where the motor pool was ( which was demolished ) is now a Toyota dealership. Also the main building is now being painted a soft-pink vice the original traditional Bavarian off-white.
The original Staff-Officer quarters have also been demolished.
A web-search on 'EGT Entwicklungsgegsellshaft Bad Tolz' will show some of the 'transformation'.
Lastly, do you have any firther recollection of the photoshop, the proprietor, of the diposition of the original construction photos you previously mentioned. I would be interested in further inquiry even on an outside shot as this type research is quite fun for me. I do have contacts there who may assist.
Thanks,
Camp Upshur
Thanks for your response. I am interested on your experiences and recollections of the then Flint Kaserne. My only active-duty experience there was as a Marine doing 'drops' with the 10th SFG some years ago. At that time I had no sensitivity or appreciation of history or architecture and fully wasted what I now consider a lost opportunity.
In answer to your questions:
The 'Tor' arch was removed some years ago , prior to my renewed interest. BTW was the 'Guard Shack' building in front of the entrance there when you were there ?
The stone wall is mostly gone now , to the best of my recollection. Years ago I removed/ borrowed one of the spiked- steel caps which were atop the wall over by the PT field and actually brought it home on an airliner !
The US Army housing area / school is still existant. However it is occupied by some Germans and some others that I suspect the SS may have used for target practice!
You may not believe this , but where the motor pool was ( which was demolished ) is now a Toyota dealership. Also the main building is now being painted a soft-pink vice the original traditional Bavarian off-white.
The original Staff-Officer quarters have also been demolished.
A web-search on 'EGT Entwicklungsgegsellshaft Bad Tolz' will show some of the 'transformation'.
Lastly, do you have any firther recollection of the photoshop, the proprietor, of the diposition of the original construction photos you previously mentioned. I would be interested in further inquiry even on an outside shot as this type research is quite fun for me. I do have contacts there who may assist.
Thanks,
Camp Upshur
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Steve Arthur
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Camp Upshur,
Hmm where do I begin, well first in regards to the building at the main gate, yes it was there when I was there. At that tme it served as the Provost Marshal's office as well as the MP station. You know, the funny thing about it, it had a basement but there were no cells to keep prisoners. It seems to me that if we had somone who needed to be placed in a cell we sent them to the Polezi station downtown. But, to be honest, we seldom were required to do that. The Special Forces people were really professional and I can't recall ever needing to arrest any of them. On the other hand, (no offense to any one who may have been a Ranger) we had more trouble with the Rangers than we did anyone else.
A Toyota dealership where the motor pool was located? D'Oh! When I wasn't working as an MP I spent a lot of time over there spending the day chatting with a friend I made who worked there named Sepp. Sepp could get us anything we wanted for our Jeeps...we had the hottest Jeeps in 7th Corps. By your saying this, I would suspect then that Tolz has exapnded considerably since I was there. If I recall, the Kaserne was on the edge of the town. As a historian, it saddens me that they have demolished a considerable amount of the Kaserne and the main structure. I'm a preservationist, I'm always pushing to save these places in their natural state. I can understand the need to utilize this complex, but I would have hoped they would have maintained the historical integrity. Soft pink? ....it breaks the heart. I would suspect that many of the SS who trained there are at this moment spinning in their grave.
Now, the photography shop.... I believe it was located along the main street next to the Tor for the old part of Bad Tölz. I wish I could remember the street. The fellow who owned it was an American ex-patriot who came to Germany via ABC Sports to cover the Olympics in the 70s. He told me that he liked Germany so much there he stayed and bought the business from the original owner who also took the photos I mentioned in another post. The photos were on glass negatives and he told me then that he thought of printing up some of them for sale to those who wanted them (why I didn't tell him I wanted one I'll never know) I would be curious to know if this guy is still in business. The photo you described sounds like one that he had. Seems to me there was a beer cellar near there as well....
Let me know what you find regards to this, I would be very interested to know the fate of the gentleman and those negatives.
Best Wishes
Steve
Hmm where do I begin, well first in regards to the building at the main gate, yes it was there when I was there. At that tme it served as the Provost Marshal's office as well as the MP station. You know, the funny thing about it, it had a basement but there were no cells to keep prisoners. It seems to me that if we had somone who needed to be placed in a cell we sent them to the Polezi station downtown. But, to be honest, we seldom were required to do that. The Special Forces people were really professional and I can't recall ever needing to arrest any of them. On the other hand, (no offense to any one who may have been a Ranger) we had more trouble with the Rangers than we did anyone else.
A Toyota dealership where the motor pool was located? D'Oh! When I wasn't working as an MP I spent a lot of time over there spending the day chatting with a friend I made who worked there named Sepp. Sepp could get us anything we wanted for our Jeeps...we had the hottest Jeeps in 7th Corps. By your saying this, I would suspect then that Tolz has exapnded considerably since I was there. If I recall, the Kaserne was on the edge of the town. As a historian, it saddens me that they have demolished a considerable amount of the Kaserne and the main structure. I'm a preservationist, I'm always pushing to save these places in their natural state. I can understand the need to utilize this complex, but I would have hoped they would have maintained the historical integrity. Soft pink? ....it breaks the heart. I would suspect that many of the SS who trained there are at this moment spinning in their grave.
Now, the photography shop.... I believe it was located along the main street next to the Tor for the old part of Bad Tölz. I wish I could remember the street. The fellow who owned it was an American ex-patriot who came to Germany via ABC Sports to cover the Olympics in the 70s. He told me that he liked Germany so much there he stayed and bought the business from the original owner who also took the photos I mentioned in another post. The photos were on glass negatives and he told me then that he thought of printing up some of them for sale to those who wanted them (why I didn't tell him I wanted one I'll never know) I would be curious to know if this guy is still in business. The photo you described sounds like one that he had. Seems to me there was a beer cellar near there as well....
Let me know what you find regards to this, I would be very interested to know the fate of the gentleman and those negatives.
Best Wishes
Steve
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Steve Arthur
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Germania,Germania wrote:I think much such stories exist I live in an area they search for the Bernsteinzimmer some times and much other things but never found big things here!
Forgive me, but what is the Bernsteinzimmer? I'm not familure with that term. My poor German translation..."______Room"?
Best Wishes
Steve
It's the Amber Room from St.Petersburg. There's even a topic about it here:http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... amber+room
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Steve Arthur
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Steve Arthur
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Germania, Camp Upshur, and others.
Though I do not believe the more elaborate treasure stories, I do believe that there continues to be items yet accounted for that may still be out there hidden in some remote area and long since forgotten. In the final days of the war we all know wide spread chaos was the word of the day. In that respect I offer you the old saying " In confusion there is profit" This thought struck me again last night as I was reading Herr Goebbels final diary entries edited by Trevor Roper. This in his discussion of the plunder hidden in the mines of Thuringia (sp?). Compound that with the massive holdings of the Reich's bank and what ever other small treasures may have exisited, the fear of being overran by the Red Army, the Allied Army, and the thought of looting both by the advancing armies and locals...you would have to believe that some of these items were hidden away and perhaps never to be recovered in the post war period. Lot of deep lakes in Bavaria, undeveloped forest, hills and mountainous areas throughout Germany that these things may still be waiting to be rediscovered.
MHO
Best Wishes
Steve
Though I do not believe the more elaborate treasure stories, I do believe that there continues to be items yet accounted for that may still be out there hidden in some remote area and long since forgotten. In the final days of the war we all know wide spread chaos was the word of the day. In that respect I offer you the old saying " In confusion there is profit" This thought struck me again last night as I was reading Herr Goebbels final diary entries edited by Trevor Roper. This in his discussion of the plunder hidden in the mines of Thuringia (sp?). Compound that with the massive holdings of the Reich's bank and what ever other small treasures may have exisited, the fear of being overran by the Red Army, the Allied Army, and the thought of looting both by the advancing armies and locals...you would have to believe that some of these items were hidden away and perhaps never to be recovered in the post war period. Lot of deep lakes in Bavaria, undeveloped forest, hills and mountainous areas throughout Germany that these things may still be waiting to be rediscovered.
MHO
Best Wishes
Steve
No they should stay where they are because they are an part of our country and our history and now they are an really part of it.Steve Arthur wrote:Germania, Camp Upshur, and others.
Though I do not believe the more elaborate treasure stories, I do believe that there continues to be items yet accounted for that may still be out there hidden in some remote area and long since forgotten. In the final days of the war we all know wide spread chaos was the word of the day. In that respect I offer you the old saying " In confusion there is profit" This thought struck me again last night as I was reading Herr Goebbels final diary entries edited by Trevor Roper. This in his discussion of the plunder hidden in the mines of Thuringia (sp?). Compound that with the massive holdings of the Reich's bank and what ever other small treasures may have exisited, the fear of being overran by the Red Army, the Allied Army, and the thought of looting both by the advancing armies and locals...you would have to believe that some of these items were hidden away and perhaps never to be recovered in the post war period. Lot of deep lakes in Bavaria, undeveloped forest, hills and mountainous areas throughout Germany that these things may still be waiting to be rediscovered.
MHO
Best Wishes
Steve
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Steve Arthur
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panzertruppe2001
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Lately some investigations doing in the Banco Central de la Republica Argentina (Argentina Central Bank) shows that a lot of money, stocks, gold, etc has been transfered to Argentina, Spain and other countries between 1942-1945. The investigators thinks that this values are part of the nazi treasure. This values were used in companies and other investments