Don't laugh. The story of "oriental barbarism" is a rather old one, isn't it?Roberto wrote:http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/d2b04856/index.jpgSamantha wrote:I feel anger at that, but fear also-- I'm a white gal and I hope to heck I have a pistol with me, and don't waste the last bullet!
What image or event of 2nd World War has moved you the most?
- Scott Smith
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The East Came West...
Re: The East Came West...
Don't know how old, but it sure is funny to meet a "white gal" who fears the slant-eyed Mongol these days. Tamerlane has been dead for quite a while, IIRC.Scott Smith wrote:Don't laugh. The story of "oriental barbarism" is a rather old one, isn't it?Roberto wrote:http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/d2b04856/index.jpgSamantha wrote:I feel anger at that, but fear also-- I'm a white gal and I hope to heck I have a pistol with me, and don't waste the last bullet!
As to "oriental barbarism", I know of no one prior to the Führer who pronounced the barbarians to be "sub-human", worthy of nothing better than being slaughtered, displaced or enslaved by the "master race".
Friedrich the Great once said something like
My translation:Es lohnt sich, die Freundschaft dieser Barbaren zu kultivieren.
The Nazis actually came to look upon the “Asiatics” among the “sub-humans” as temporary allies – although it took them a while to realize that it was counterproductive to bump them off:It is worth while to cultivate the friendship of these barbarians.
[...]Another group of prisoners of war who were annihilated especially in the first months of the war were the so-called Asiatics. They killing was also part of the tasks of the Einsatzgruppen from the beginning. Although they were mentioned for the first time ion Heydrichs order no. 8 of 17 July 1941, selections and murders by Einsatzgruppe B in Minsk already occurred before that. In accordance with the General Quarter Master Wagner’s order of 24 July the camp and guard personnel registered the “Asiatics (according to their race)” under the term “Asiatics”, also in Belorussia. There are no report about their killing by the Wehrmacht from this area, however. At an unknown time, for instance, 200 to 250 Red Army soldiers considered Mongolian were selected from the prisoner of war camp at Mogilev and shot by EK 8. In part the detachments of security police and SD also murdered them as presumed Jews, as Muslims are also circumcised. After several months protests from the Eastern Ministry and the Amt Ausland/Abwehr of the Wehrmacht High Command piled up because these entities considered the Asiatics, especially the Muslim Caucasians and soldiers from Central Asia, to be predestined collaborators. These protests led to an order by Heydrich of 12 September 1941 putting an end to the shooting of the “Asiatics”, which order, however, was not immediately followed by all Einsatzkommandos.[...]
My translation from Christian Gerlach’s book Kalkulierte Morde, see my post of Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:28 pm on the thread
Annihilation of Soviet Prisoners of War in Belorussia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... c09be90038
Re: The East Came West...
Not because of their race, but because in that instance they were a conquering army with their heads stuffed full of Ilya Ehrenburg's inspiring command to rape as many German women as they could!Roberto wrote:Don't know how old, but it sure is funny to meet a "white gal" who fears the slant-eyed Mongol these days. Tamerlane has been dead for quite a while, IIRC.
I'm not afraid of them "these days", but I sure would be if I was there back in 1945. And for good reason.
Last edited by Samantha on 13 Nov 2002, 22:18, edited 1 time in total.
- Oleg Grigoryev
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I don't think they raped because of Ehrenburg, or because of his propaganda alone. The main reasons for their behavior were probably much more banal. Have a look at the sources quoted in my post of Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:19 pm on the threadSamantha wrote:Not because of their race, but because in that instance they were a conquering army with their heads stuffed full of Ilya Ehrenburg's inspiring command to rape as many German women as they could!Roberto wrote:Don't know how old, but it sure is funny to meet a "white gal" who fears the slant-eyed Mongol these days. Tamerlane has been dead for quite a while, IIRC.
soviet army in Germany in Soviet documents
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... c09be90038
- Oleg Grigoryev
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- Bill Medland
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The most interesting thing about this thread, is that a lot of people have added photos and comments which support "political" views, both left and right.
Anyway, there are two pics I would like to nominate, and I will give my reasons why.
Dead German Fireman in Dresden
I cried when I saw this because his body is burned to a crisp and tucked under his coat is a small boy of 5 years who died with him in his arms.
The picture moved me because as a father, I have a small son too!
I imagine the fireman comforting the youth saying everything will be ok, before they both died.
British Para POWs in Arnhem
A pic of Brit Paras after the battle siting on the ground, they gave everything they had, tired blank faces realizing it was all for nothing, almost disbelief at being POWs.
Regards,Bill.
Anyway, there are two pics I would like to nominate, and I will give my reasons why.
Dead German Fireman in Dresden
I cried when I saw this because his body is burned to a crisp and tucked under his coat is a small boy of 5 years who died with him in his arms.
The picture moved me because as a father, I have a small son too!
I imagine the fireman comforting the youth saying everything will be ok, before they both died.
British Para POWs in Arnhem
A pic of Brit Paras after the battle siting on the ground, they gave everything they had, tired blank faces realizing it was all for nothing, almost disbelief at being POWs.
Regards,Bill.
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Where is that picture of the brit giving the finger at arhem.
I think my most moving image of WW II is the picture of Hiroshima. Not because of the destruction itself but the idea behind the destruction. It is the realization that as humans even though we might dedicate thousands of years to building a great city, with great builtingds art works and contributions to society. THat we are able and willing to completely destroy all of that in a matter of seconds.
I think my most moving image of WW II is the picture of Hiroshima. Not because of the destruction itself but the idea behind the destruction. It is the realization that as humans even though we might dedicate thousands of years to building a great city, with great builtingds art works and contributions to society. THat we are able and willing to completely destroy all of that in a matter of seconds.
Czechslovakia - German occupation
I think this picture don't need any words. It speaks for itself:
Totalitarianism never again. Never.
Totalitarianism never again. Never.
Last edited by chalutzim on 12 Aug 2003, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry, but I did not get the idea of your post. What do you have against mongolian looking faces? Are you a typical white gal racist or something? Yes, many kazakhs, turkmens, kirgiz and such fought in the ranks of Red Army. They proved themselves as ferocious warriors. What is surprising about that?Samantha wrote:What picture moved me the most... it was one I saw years ago. It's a posed picture of a bunch of Russian soldiers standing in a square in Germany with captured German banners held in their hands but upside down, dragging on the ground. The Russian soldier nearest the camera has a flat Mongolian face, and an expression of contempt. I feel anger at that, but fear also-- I'm a white gal and I hope to heck I have a pistol with me, and don't waste the last bullet!
Yeesh, I'm glad I'm in America sometimes... where we might not be right (ha) but at least us little people only have to worry about our own problems.
Re: Czechslovakia - German occupation
chalutzim wrote:I think this picture don't need any words. It speaks for itself:
Totalitarianism never again. Never.
Where was this picture taken? And who are the people?
Answer to Hetman: Masha Bruskina
Masha Bruskina was a teenage female partisan in Minsk in Russia. She was a 17 year old Jewish high school graduate and was the first teenage girl to be publicly hanged by the Nazi's in Belorussia (Byelarus). Her execution took place on October 26th 1941 in the city of Minsk.
She worked as a nurse in a military hospital, and was a member of an underground cell which aided Soviet officers hospitalized there, to escape and join the partisans. The members of this cell were informed on and quickly rounded up. Masha and two of her male comrades, Volodya Sherbateivich and Krill Trous, were sentenced to death. They were led through the streets with Masha wearing a large placard proclaiming that they were partisans and hanged one at a time, Masha first, by the 707 Infanteriedivision who meticulously filmed the proceedings.
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/masha.html
Hetman, please search google. You will find a lot of information about Masha Bruskina. Thanks sylvieK4.
Regards. Wintceas.
ps.: My information was incorrect. They were russian partisans.
She worked as a nurse in a military hospital, and was a member of an underground cell which aided Soviet officers hospitalized there, to escape and join the partisans. The members of this cell were informed on and quickly rounded up. Masha and two of her male comrades, Volodya Sherbateivich and Krill Trous, were sentenced to death. They were led through the streets with Masha wearing a large placard proclaiming that they were partisans and hanged one at a time, Masha first, by the 707 Infanteriedivision who meticulously filmed the proceedings.
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/masha.html
Hetman, please search google. You will find a lot of information about Masha Bruskina. Thanks sylvieK4.
Regards. Wintceas.
ps.: My information was incorrect. They were russian partisans.