ex-German POWs division who fought the SS & Wehrmacht
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ex-German POWs division who fought the SS & Wehrmacht
Hey, does anyone had any information regarding ex-German POWs who formed the core of the Seydlitz Division who fought aginst the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS in the Eastern Front under the Russians?
At 17 September 1943, 4 days after the BDO was founded, General Seydlitz met Nikolai Melnikow. Seydlitz planned to create 3 divisions with 30.000 men in total rekruited from German prisoners of war of the former 6'th Army. Melnikow sent a secret notification of the plans to Lawrenti Beija. At 22 September 1943 the looked following:
The conversations about a German "Liberation-Army" lasted nearly until the end of the war. The Russians allowed Polish, Czech, Romanian and Yugoslavish troops on Russish territory and the French "Normandie-Njemen" as well. But the Russians disliked the idea of armed Germans on their territory and were afraid of unpleasant surprises. So the idea of a large German army at Russian side was never realized.
Neverthless, there were small armed groups for recon, propaganda etc. In some cases, like during the battle at the Krim (spring 1944), they fought against the German forces. Many German PoW's were honored with Russian orders of battle.
- 4 divisions with 10.000 men each
1 Flakregiment, 4 units, 4000 men
1 Fliegerverband, ca. 1000 men
The conversations about a German "Liberation-Army" lasted nearly until the end of the war. The Russians allowed Polish, Czech, Romanian and Yugoslavish troops on Russish territory and the French "Normandie-Njemen" as well. But the Russians disliked the idea of armed Germans on their territory and were afraid of unpleasant surprises. So the idea of a large German army at Russian side was never realized.
Neverthless, there were small armed groups for recon, propaganda etc. In some cases, like during the battle at the Krim (spring 1944), they fought against the German forces. Many German PoW's were honored with Russian orders of battle.
Panzermahn,
(click on the cover)
This book may be of interest to you: "Free Germany Movement: A Case of Patriotism or Treason?" by Kai P. Schoenhals
Here is an article that might interest you:
Germans against Germany in WWII, the NKFD and BDO
http://www.feldgrau.com/nkfd-bdo.html
/Marcus
(click on the cover)
This book may be of interest to you: "Free Germany Movement: A Case of Patriotism or Treason?" by Kai P. Schoenhals
Here is an article that might interest you:
Germans against Germany in WWII, the NKFD and BDO
http://www.feldgrau.com/nkfd-bdo.html
/Marcus
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Traitors?
I have to say that my first instinct is to yes traitors, but if we sit back and place ourselves in the position of these men , Would we have done any different?......personally I am not sure. For me this falls into the area of just one of those things that happen in war like brutality and conquest, I do not condone many actions taken by any of the parties involved allied or axis. This is like the ongoing arugument about who committed the worst atrocites, Does it really matter? It happened and still does examples; the Balkans, Rawanda, Sudan, etc, etc. Simple fact theses things happen in war and the victors tend to write the history books.
To judge the actions of any WW2 soldier by todays standards is wrong, todays soldier has far more oppurtunity to judge right from wrong whereas a German/russian soldier, I dare say did not voice a dissenting opinion. And I wonder how many did?....both of these countries utilized the Penal Battalion system , which makes on wonder why the nazi/communist system needed them but not democratic nations.........But thats another debate, sorry for the verbal diatribe. Shon
To judge the actions of any WW2 soldier by todays standards is wrong, todays soldier has far more oppurtunity to judge right from wrong whereas a German/russian soldier, I dare say did not voice a dissenting opinion. And I wonder how many did?....both of these countries utilized the Penal Battalion system , which makes on wonder why the nazi/communist system needed them but not democratic nations.........But thats another debate, sorry for the verbal diatribe. Shon
traitors
This is a loaded subject; who is a traitor and who is not, sometimes depends on who has won the war. Had the English won the American Independence war, Benedict Arnold would have been a hero, and Washington who had been a British officer would have been hanged.
Were the Dutch who fought on the side of the Germans trators ? or were those who fought on the side of the Allieds traitors ? Were the Dutch cabinet members who stayed and tried to salvage as much as possible of a lost situation traitors ? or were those who had fled to England, and spurred the left behind population to resistance resulting in repraisals ?. Had Germany won, those would have been traitors, in this case they were the good guys. So, what it comes down to is, like most everything else, a matter of perception. "If we had known . . . . . " hindsight is always 20 20. Regards. HN.
Were the Dutch who fought on the side of the Germans trators ? or were those who fought on the side of the Allieds traitors ? Were the Dutch cabinet members who stayed and tried to salvage as much as possible of a lost situation traitors ? or were those who had fled to England, and spurred the left behind population to resistance resulting in repraisals ?. Had Germany won, those would have been traitors, in this case they were the good guys. So, what it comes down to is, like most everything else, a matter of perception. "If we had known . . . . . " hindsight is always 20 20. Regards. HN.
In autumn of 1944, 45 % of the Officers and 75 % of the ordinary landsers in Soviet POW camps were registered members of NKFD, BDO or Antifa. We're talking about a mass phaenomenon.
A majority of them joined for the promise of better medical care or additional food, while others spend their time in Russian GUPVI camps to think about if Hiter and his bunch is really good for them and Germany.
(Source: K.-H. Frieser: "Nationalkommitee 'Freied Deutschland'", pp728-744)
Cheers,
A majority of them joined for the promise of better medical care or additional food, while others spend their time in Russian GUPVI camps to think about if Hiter and his bunch is really good for them and Germany.
(Source: K.-H. Frieser: "Nationalkommitee 'Freied Deutschland'", pp728-744)
Cheers,