look, there is even a documentary about it:
http://www.mdr.de/kultur/film/421998.html
Ohrdruf
Geschichts- und Technologiegesellschaft Großraum Jonastal e.V.
http://www.jonastalverein.de/
--------
Grüße!
Kephra
http://www.jonastalverein.de/
--------
Grüße!
Kephra
Some informations about the memorial events next months. If you now somebody from other units please contact us too.
-> http://www.89infdivww2.org/home/jan2005.htm
SPECIAL INVITATION For The Commemoration Of The Liberation Of Ohrdruf
Dear Veteran of the 89th Infantry Division,
We are contacting you for this important occasion. However, allow us to introduce ourselves to you. We are a non-profit organization in Arnstadt in the State of Thueringen in East Germany. Our objectives are the documentation and publication of the history of the Concentration Camp Ohrdruf, as well as, the associated fates of the prisoners, liberators and the activities in the area of Ohrdruf-Arnstadt-Jonastal during that time, as well as education of the public. We base our findings on profound archive findings, as well as time witnesses.
On 04 Apr 1945, members of your 89th Infantry Division liberated Camp Ohrdruf as on of the first concentration camps in Germany. General Eisenhower, General Patton and General Bradley each personally visited the camp where approx. about 30,000 prisoners suffered.
Memorial events to commemorate this significant liberation will be held from 8 April 2005 - 10 April 2005. Attendance range from with survivors of the camp , politicians, local officials and youth organizations. We would like to make this historic event public and known so that such cruelty and suffering will never happen again. We would like to invite you, as important witness of this event so many years ago, to this event....
Please contact [email protected] for more informations about this events, the Jonastal, S III and Ohrdruf or the named site http://www.jonastalverein.de
with kind regards
Klaus-Peter
-> http://www.89infdivww2.org/home/jan2005.htm
SPECIAL INVITATION For The Commemoration Of The Liberation Of Ohrdruf
Dear Veteran of the 89th Infantry Division,
We are contacting you for this important occasion. However, allow us to introduce ourselves to you. We are a non-profit organization in Arnstadt in the State of Thueringen in East Germany. Our objectives are the documentation and publication of the history of the Concentration Camp Ohrdruf, as well as, the associated fates of the prisoners, liberators and the activities in the area of Ohrdruf-Arnstadt-Jonastal during that time, as well as education of the public. We base our findings on profound archive findings, as well as time witnesses.
On 04 Apr 1945, members of your 89th Infantry Division liberated Camp Ohrdruf as on of the first concentration camps in Germany. General Eisenhower, General Patton and General Bradley each personally visited the camp where approx. about 30,000 prisoners suffered.
Memorial events to commemorate this significant liberation will be held from 8 April 2005 - 10 April 2005. Attendance range from with survivors of the camp , politicians, local officials and youth organizations. We would like to make this historic event public and known so that such cruelty and suffering will never happen again. We would like to invite you, as important witness of this event so many years ago, to this event....
Please contact [email protected] for more informations about this events, the Jonastal, S III and Ohrdruf or the named site http://www.jonastalverein.de
with kind regards
Klaus-Peter
-
MAX_theHitMan
- Member
- Posts: 965
- Joined: 19 Apr 2004, 01:28
- Location: Planet*Portugal
When you put the puzzle pieces together, it´s quite easy to figure out.
Read this factual acount into the V-weapons and A-bomb research.
Go ahead and download the books for "Free".
You must read it.
Don´t skip a page.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/MaresNest/
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/VirusHouse/index.html
Then research into the Manhattan project.
Do extensive research into the German "Amerika Bomber" projects.
Research some more into USA government declassified papers from 1943 - 1946.
...The puzzle starts to make a picture that says that both (Americans & Germans) were on the verge
of developing an A-bomb by the summer of `45. But the war ended in Europe for the Reich.
The US finally captured what remained of the German research project into the A-bomb at Haigerloch, Germany.
They took all the scientists into "Farm house" for interrogations but they didn´t say a word.
So the ALSOS team took it (bomb/uranium) back to the USA and quickly pieced together the pieces they were missing from their own A-bomb project. AND with a bit of luck they also captured a submarine with a few containers carrying the precious uranium too!
A few months later one bomb was tested in the desert and it worked.
So one US-made bomb was used in Japan... On the beautiful city of Hiroshima
The second bomb was already made by the German research teams, it did not need any testing, they knew it would work.
So it was used in a second nuclear attack on Japan... Nagasaki gone in 2 minutes
If you look closely at the two A-bombs you will notice quite a big diference from the shape and explosive methods they used.
Why was one bomb tested and not the other? Why weren´t the two bombs made a-like?
Why was one bomb an elongated shape and the other a ball-shaped bomb?
Would it not be better to have one bomb design work and then make all the rest to look alike?
Certainly the USA did NOT have enough uranium at the time to make two atomic bombs...let alone a third to explode over the desert for "testing purposes".
...perhaps they just wanted to fry some eggs in the desert, right?
Why didn´t the Japanese create their A-bomb on time?... since they too were well advanced into the A-bomb project themselves. Perhaps they needed a "little help" from some of their friends in Europe that had some "extra" uranium on hand to complete their own bomb. Right? If not, why was Germany always sending them jet airplanes...rockets planes...missiles... weapons...secret tecnology...containers filled with uranium?
Am I making any sence?
Of course not.
This is the stuff that creates conspiracy theories and sells great novels and books...perhaps even make a movie about. Right?
Perhaps.
But if you research deep down into the bag of secrets that are not shown to the public in general...you just might find the missing pieces of this whole puzzle.
BUT then again who wants to have some "government men-in-black" come knocking at your door in the middle of the night and taking away all your researched documents and harddisks from your PC ??
Perhaps if you live far away from those "men-in-black", someplace like where I live,
maybe just then you can live in peace.
Cheers
and good luck on your researches
... but don´t forget to lock your doors at night
Read this factual acount into the V-weapons and A-bomb research.
Go ahead and download the books for "Free".
You must read it.
Don´t skip a page.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/MaresNest/
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/VirusHouse/index.html
Writer: David Irving
My publisher, William Kimber, was eager to publish what I had already assembled -- "You have to draw a line under the work somewhere," he said -- but I convinced him to let me follow my hunch, that the bulk of the 1943-1945 papers would be found in secret US archives, either in the custody of Dr Samuel Goudsmit, head of the 1945 ALSOS investigation, or in the archives of the Atomic Energy Authority at Oak Ridge Tennessee. Both suppositions proved correct. I stayed for several days as Goudsmit's guest at Brookhaven Physics Laboratory on Long Island, where he had several file cabinets of top-level Third Reich documents on the project; and the archives at Oak Ridge had all the scientific papers, including the Kernphysikalische Forschungsberichte of the team led by Prof Walther Gerlach.
Then research into the Manhattan project.
Do extensive research into the German "Amerika Bomber" projects.
Research some more into USA government declassified papers from 1943 - 1946.
...The puzzle starts to make a picture that says that both (Americans & Germans) were on the verge
of developing an A-bomb by the summer of `45. But the war ended in Europe for the Reich.
The US finally captured what remained of the German research project into the A-bomb at Haigerloch, Germany.
They took all the scientists into "Farm house" for interrogations but they didn´t say a word.
So the ALSOS team took it (bomb/uranium) back to the USA and quickly pieced together the pieces they were missing from their own A-bomb project. AND with a bit of luck they also captured a submarine with a few containers carrying the precious uranium too!
A few months later one bomb was tested in the desert and it worked.
So one US-made bomb was used in Japan... On the beautiful city of Hiroshima
The second bomb was already made by the German research teams, it did not need any testing, they knew it would work.
So it was used in a second nuclear attack on Japan... Nagasaki gone in 2 minutes
If you look closely at the two A-bombs you will notice quite a big diference from the shape and explosive methods they used.
Why was one bomb tested and not the other? Why weren´t the two bombs made a-like?
Why was one bomb an elongated shape and the other a ball-shaped bomb?
Would it not be better to have one bomb design work and then make all the rest to look alike?
Certainly the USA did NOT have enough uranium at the time to make two atomic bombs...let alone a third to explode over the desert for "testing purposes".
...perhaps they just wanted to fry some eggs in the desert, right?Why didn´t the Japanese create their A-bomb on time?... since they too were well advanced into the A-bomb project themselves. Perhaps they needed a "little help" from some of their friends in Europe that had some "extra" uranium on hand to complete their own bomb. Right? If not, why was Germany always sending them jet airplanes...rockets planes...missiles... weapons...secret tecnology...containers filled with uranium?
Am I making any sence?
Of course not.
This is the stuff that creates conspiracy theories and sells great novels and books...perhaps even make a movie about. Right?
Perhaps.
But if you research deep down into the bag of secrets that are not shown to the public in general...you just might find the missing pieces of this whole puzzle.
BUT then again who wants to have some "government men-in-black" come knocking at your door in the middle of the night and taking away all your researched documents and harddisks from your PC ??
Perhaps if you live far away from those "men-in-black", someplace like where I live,
maybe just then you can live in peace.
Cheers
and good luck on your researches
... but don´t forget to lock your doors at night
Well the 2 bomb shapes was because Little Boy (the rod shaped one) was a uranium bomb, but Fat Man (the ball shaped one) was a plutonium bomb.If you look closely at the two A-bombs you will notice quite a big diference from the shape and explosive methods they used.
Why was one bomb tested and not the other? Why weren´t the two bombs made a-like?
Why was one bomb an elongated shape and the other a ball-shaped bomb?
Would it not be better to have one bomb design work and then make all the rest to look alike?
Thy knew the "elongated shape" Type would work, But thy did'nt know if the "ball-shaped" type would. so the one tested at Los alamos was of the "ball-shaped" type.
The reson for the 2 Shapes was that the "elongated shape" type was basicly a gun, it fired one pece of material into the other.
the "ball-shaped" one had the material around the center "core" as (IIRC) Plutonium was a little more unstable than uranium so thy could'nt use the "Gun" metheod with it.
Did I miss any thing? got any thing wrong??? let me know.
(Note. It looks like I Failed to read the entire pervious post corectly :roll: ...)
Hi everybody! 8)
Here (below) are links to my article about Sowie Mountains (Eulengebirge) in Poland.
In the Sowie Mountains Nazis built in 1943-1945 the underground facilities and first underground Headquarters (ger. FHQ - Führerhauptquartiere) - project "Riese"(Giant).
Second underground HQ's Nazis built in Ohrdruf area (Jonastal) in 1944/1945 - project "Olga" or "Siegfried". "Riese" and "Olga/Siegfried" (in Thuringien) was bilt as part of large project S III /ger. Sonderbauvorhaben III/ - including all Germans HQ's.
Links about project "Riese":
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/2878 Part 1
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/5218 Part 2
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/7444 Part 3
Best regards
wars98
Here (below) are links to my article about Sowie Mountains (Eulengebirge) in Poland.
In the Sowie Mountains Nazis built in 1943-1945 the underground facilities and first underground Headquarters (ger. FHQ - Führerhauptquartiere) - project "Riese"(Giant).
Second underground HQ's Nazis built in Ohrdruf area (Jonastal) in 1944/1945 - project "Olga" or "Siegfried". "Riese" and "Olga/Siegfried" (in Thuringien) was bilt as part of large project S III /ger. Sonderbauvorhaben III/ - including all Germans HQ's.
Links about project "Riese":
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/2878 Part 1
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/5218 Part 2
http://www.warsawvoice.pl/view/7444 Part 3
Best regards
wars98
was thereRe: Ohrdruf
[quote="ohrdruf"](1) Sources and reference Material
The OKW and Luftwaffe War Diaries and all copies of them for the period March 1945 have disappearedand are suspected to be in American keeping.
On 7 April 1945 the US Atomic Energy Commission inspected various underground workings at Ohrdruf and removed technical equipment before dynamiting surface entrances. The US authorities have classified all 1945 documents relating to Ohrdruf for a minimum period of 100 years.
The US Atomic Energy Commission (USAEC) was established in 1946 by the MacMahon Act (went into effect o january 1st, 1947). So this institution never inspected the Ohrdruf facilities.
The OKW and Luftwaffe War Diaries and all copies of them for the period March 1945 have disappearedand are suspected to be in American keeping.
On 7 April 1945 the US Atomic Energy Commission inspected various underground workings at Ohrdruf and removed technical equipment before dynamiting surface entrances. The US authorities have classified all 1945 documents relating to Ohrdruf for a minimum period of 100 years.
The US Atomic Energy Commission (USAEC) was established in 1946 by the MacMahon Act (went into effect o january 1st, 1947). So this institution never inspected the Ohrdruf facilities.
-
Matt Gibbs
- Member
- Posts: 3005
- Joined: 23 Mar 2002, 01:46
- Location: United Kingdom
- Contact:
Re: Ohrdruf
Just one minor point, with this thread mentioning hundreds of German jet aircraft being grounded - and conventional planes too - for want of fuel, would anyone really sanction the scattering of ashes of dead persons by aeroplane in 1945 as also cited.
Sorry, I am very doubtful that particular event ever took place, when road vehicles were being turned to wood gas burners as early as 1944 who would waste precious aviation fuel on such a mission? If they weren't bothered about 10s of 1000s of bodies in mass graves why go to all the trouble..? Any direct evidence to say it happened?
OK we've also heard of the convenient loss of Luftwaffe records for the late war period mentioned, but that doesn't prove it actually happened and is being hidden, either
ttfn
Matt
Sorry, I am very doubtful that particular event ever took place, when road vehicles were being turned to wood gas burners as early as 1944 who would waste precious aviation fuel on such a mission? If they weren't bothered about 10s of 1000s of bodies in mass graves why go to all the trouble..? Any direct evidence to say it happened?
OK we've also heard of the convenient loss of Luftwaffe records for the late war period mentioned, but that doesn't prove it actually happened and is being hidden, either
ttfn
Matt
Re:
So far we're in agreement.MAX_theHitMan wrote:When you put the puzzle pieces together, it´s quite easy to figure out.
Woops "David Irving" in case you are not aware of it he's been pretty well dicredited.Read this factual acount into the V-weapons and A-bomb research.
Go ahead and download the books for "Free".
You must read it.
....Writer: David Irving
Yep....
Then research into the Manhattan project.
Mot sure how that really relates.Do extensive research into the German "Amerika Bomber" projects.
Which ones? Choose the right sample and you can prove almost anything as long as you ignore the rest.Research some more into USA government declassified papers from 1943 - 1946.
Only if you are very selective with your sources. It's pretty clear Germany was a long way away from it....The puzzle starts to make a picture that says that both (Americans & Germans) were on the verge
of developing an A-bomb by the summer of `45.
And now we are deep in conspiracy theory territory....
The second bomb was already made by the German research teams, ...
Didn't you mention something about researching the Manhatten project. Statements like the above are pretty clear indictators of as a minimum a lack of rigor in that area....
Certainly the USA did NOT have enough uranium at the time to make two atomic bombs...let alone a third to explode over the desert for "testing purposes".
Perhaps they needed a vast amount of resources, equipment, personell, and time....
Why didn´t the Japanese create their A-bomb on time?... since they too were well advanced into the A-bomb project themselves. Perhaps they needed a "little help" from some of their friends in Europe that had some "extra" uranium on hand to complete their own bomb.
Looks like we agree again.Am I making any sence?
Of course not.
Now I get it you were being sarcastic all along....Perhaps if you live far away from those "men-in-black", someplace like where I live,
maybe just then you can live in peace....
Re: Ohrdruf
Oh boy... This thread is moving quickly into the teritory of conspiracy theories and pure bull****. I suspect we'll be hearing about SS General Kammel and "The Bell" soon.
As fascinating as stories about "Fuel-air explosives" and "Uranium bombs" may be, most of it is merely hearsay, rumours, and in some cases, wishful thinking.
Thanks to, among other things, the regimes antisemitism and lack of foresight, Germany was years behind in the development of a nuclear bombs, and an atomic bomb would be years away in 1945.
The Italian story of a nuclear test on Rugen Island has been notoriously debunked. And in the case of Orhdruf the evidence of any mystery-weapons is severly lacking. A magical machine that disables electrical fields? Please...
Regarding jet aircraft, even thousands of ME 262's complete with fuel and weapons would not have made a lick of difference. Allied pilots quickly learned how to deal with the german jet-aircraft, and the notion that a sufficient number of wonderweapons could have changed the war, is not realistic. The myth of German superweapons, and how advanced the thid reich research was in all areas is just that. A myth. In many areas of development, such as tank development, Germany was way behind, or just catching up with the allies.
"Another case"?!? It's just a case of security, or the perception of it at the time. The British locked down all information about the breaking of the Enigma code, and didn't release anything about it until the 70'ies. Is this also "crafting of history"? I'd like to know what other example you can think of. I suspect it'll fall into the category of Nazi/SS-apologism, but hope you'll prove me wrong.This is another sad case of the Western Allies' "crafting" of history after the war.
As fascinating as stories about "Fuel-air explosives" and "Uranium bombs" may be, most of it is merely hearsay, rumours, and in some cases, wishful thinking.
Thanks to, among other things, the regimes antisemitism and lack of foresight, Germany was years behind in the development of a nuclear bombs, and an atomic bomb would be years away in 1945.
The Italian story of a nuclear test on Rugen Island has been notoriously debunked. And in the case of Orhdruf the evidence of any mystery-weapons is severly lacking. A magical machine that disables electrical fields? Please...
Regarding jet aircraft, even thousands of ME 262's complete with fuel and weapons would not have made a lick of difference. Allied pilots quickly learned how to deal with the german jet-aircraft, and the notion that a sufficient number of wonderweapons could have changed the war, is not realistic. The myth of German superweapons, and how advanced the thid reich research was in all areas is just that. A myth. In many areas of development, such as tank development, Germany was way behind, or just catching up with the allies.