*Experimental TANKS of the Allies - any info, please!*

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BIGpanzer
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*Experimental TANKS of the Allies - any info, please!*

Post by BIGpanzer » 11 Feb 2005 22:00

Does somebody know about using French 2C super heavy tank during WWII and have dimensioned drawings of that tank? I know only that 8 2C were destroyed by German aviation during their railway transportation.

Could somebody help me with the photos of British A1E1 "Independent".....

Also I couldn't find any old photos (not modern from the museum) of American super heavy self-propelled gun T28. Did this experimental gun use during WWII or not (as trials, for example)?...

Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer.

Photo of the French super-heavy tank 2C: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/fran ... char2c.jpg
Picture of the British super-heavy tank A1E1: http://www.battlefield.ru/tanks/t35/t35_20.jpg
Photo (modern) of the US super-heavy tank (SPG) T28:
http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/usa ... 28-003.JPG
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 09 Dec 2005 22:59, edited 15 times in total.

MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 12 Feb 2005 10:35

the T-28 was never used operationally, just testbed
for the french 2C did You look there : http://www.chars-francais.net/


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Post by BIGpanzer » 12 Feb 2005 19:10

Hi, MadderCat!

Thanks a lot - the site about French AFVs is great! I found a lot of photos and drawings of FCM 2C. As I understand those monster tanks never took place in battle, but German planes destroyed them during the railway transportation to the front!

As for experimental British A1E1 "Independent" (preserved now at Bowington tank museum) - I still could not find any old photos of it, the same about USA T28 super-heavy tank.....Help needed.

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 12 Feb 2005 19:59

FCM-2C
The very heavy tank FCM-2C was build by was built by the "Société des Forges et Chantiers de la Mediterranée". It was developed as a heavy breakthrough vehicle in WW1. The order called for a vehicle that would span all German trenches (it could cross 4.25m wide ditches), that explains the lenth of the tank (10.27m), it was not very wide (2.95m) in order to be transported by train and it was 4.01m high. The FCM-2C was the very first heavy tank (68t, the British WW1 Mark V had 26t), seriously armored (40mm) and armed with a 75mm gun in a turret (320° traverse). The tank had a powerful engine and a modern architecture for its time, including 2.5x stroboscopic sights. Originally, 300 FCM-2C tanks were supposed to be built. Ten tanks were built between 1919 and 1921 and named as follows in 1940 (previously named n°1-10) : n°90 'Poitou', n°91 'Provence', n°92 'Picardie', n°93 'Alsace', n°94 'Bretagne', n°95 'Touraine', n°96 'Anjou', n°97 'Lorraine' (later renamed 'Normandie'), n°98 'Berry', n°99 'Champagne'. The tank n°99 received a turret with a 155mm short gun in 1926 (it was the unique FCM-2Cbis). Out of 10 FCM-2C built, only 8 remained available to form 51st BCC in September 1939. The tanks n°93 and n°94 were decommissioned and their turrets were possibly sent to Tunisia for the Mareth Line. The tanks n°92 and n°95 had their engine out of service and were scuttled on 12th June 1940. The n°97 'Normandie' is the command tank of the battalion and received additional armor resulting in a weight increase of 10% : it reached 90mm on the front and 65mm on the sides. In June 1940, the tanks loaded onto special railroad cars, were blocked on the wagons south of Neufchâteau since the rail-road and an other train in front of the convoy had been destroyed by the Luftwaffe. The tanks could not be unloaded in this area and all of them were scuttled on 15th June 1940 by explosive charges except the tank n°99 for which the charge failed to explode. The tank n°99 was therefore captured intact by the Germans and brought back to Berlin. In 1942, it was seen in France at the Renault plant being overhauled. Brought back to Germany, the tank was eventually captured by the USSR and was last seen in 1948 in East Germany according to several sources. You can find numerous German propaganda photos claiming that these tanks have been destroyed by German tanks, the wrecks where moved all around to take "victorious" photos, sometimes tanks had fired at point blank against them to prove that they had been destroyed etc. but they were simply abandoned and scuttled and never saw action.
Weight : 68-70t
Length : 10.27m
Width : 2.95m
Height : 4.01m
Crew : 12 men (3 men in the front turret and 1 man in the rear turret)
Maximum armor : 30-40mm (RHA bolted armor) (90mm for the n°97)
Maximum speed : 12 km/h (2x Maybach or Daimler-Benz, 2x 6 cylinders, 520 hp, 16950 cm3)
Autonomy : 150 km
Armament : four 8mm Hotchkiss Mle1914 HMGs (9504 rounds) and one 75mm L/29.7 Mle1897 gun (124 shells). The turret was armed with the 75mm gun and one CMG (rotation 320°, elevation -20° to +20°), there was a BMG in the front hull, a BMG in the forder left side (protecting the main access hatch) able to fire front/left and left and a TMG in the rear protecting turret.

Regards,

David

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French FCM 2C super heavy tank

Post by BIGpanzer » 12 Feb 2005 23:11

Hello, David!
Thanks a lot for the full info about 2C!
I just want to add (found recently) that tank No.99 with 155-mm howitzer also had 2 x 250 hp "Sotter-Ari" engines, instead "Maybach". All 10 2C had at first "Mercedes-Benz" GIIIa engines (2 x 180 hp, used earlier on German dirigibles and received as military reparations by France after WWI), later they were replaced by 2 x 250 hp "Maybach".

As for organization - I found an info that in 1923 all 10 tanks 2C were united in the 3rd battalion of 511th tank regiment. In February 1929 the regiment was disbanded and tanks formed 51st battalion of heavy tanks in Bourget. After beginning of WWII the 51st battalion was moved to Brie and began active training. The commander of the battalion was major Furne.
Tank No.99 "Champagne", which could not be destroyed by the crew 15/VI 1940, was captured by Germans and was tested at tank testing area near Cossen. The electrotransmission of 2C interested Ferdinand Porshe very much, and he used the French experience later, designing Pz.Kpfw. VIE "Tiger" and Jagdpanzer "Ferdinand". Another completely destroyed by inside explosives 2C were took to pieces by Germans, but several remained intact tank turrets were used for the Atlantic wall.

Photo of the destroyed French 2C (1940): http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/fran ... troyed.jpg

Photo of the French super-heavy tank FCM 2C (10 copies, 1919-1921) is from
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/fran ... 70tons.jpg

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Last edited by BIGpanzer on 13 Nov 2005 00:04, edited 10 times in total.

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Post by David Lehmann » 12 Feb 2005 23:15

Hello BIGpanzer,

Thanks for complementary information :)

Regards,

David

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British A1E1 "Independent" heavy tank

Post by BIGpanzer » 13 Feb 2005 08:10

Hi!
I found some info about British A1E1 "Independent" super heavy tank.
Specifications: weight 31.5 t; dimensions 25' 5" x 10' 6" x 8' 10"; crew 8 men; armor - 13-28 mm; armament - 1 x 47mm gun + 4 .303 MGs; 398 hp engine "Armstrong Siddley"; speed 32 km/h; distance - 320 km.

The tank was planned to use as break-through tank with heavy firepower, operated independently. Vickers A1E1 was made in November 1926 and was tested and improved during the next 6 years. Because of the length more than 9m A1E1 could overcome 4.5 m trenches, the width of caterpillars was 600 mm. This tank caused a revolution in heavy tanks with its multi-turreted design, so the same projects were developed in USSR (famous T-28 with 3 turrets, 503 were produced, used during WWII and T-35 with 5 turrets, 61 were produced and used in 1941), Germany (Nb.Fz with 3 turets, 5 were produced) and Japan ("2591" and "2595" with 3 turrets).
The cost of the tank was very high - 77400 pound sterlings, so the production was stopped and A1E1 remained experimental. It is still preserved at the Bowington tank museum, but in 1940 when UK waited the German invasion, it was took out and used as a weapon emplacement.


Photo of the British super-heavy tank A1E1 "Independent" (1 copy, 1926)
is from http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Grea ... dent-2.jpg

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Last edited by BIGpanzer on 12 Nov 2005 23:56, edited 7 times in total.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 16 Feb 2005 00:36

As fot American T28 (T95). Does somebody know how much were produced - 3 or 5? Also, I don't know full specifications of it - only that weight was 83 or 88 t, 105 mm gun and armor up to 305 mm (record!). But as for dimensions and engine - different data in different sources....Please, help!

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Post by BIGpanzer » 16 Feb 2005 00:37

As fot American T28 (T95). Does somebody know how much were produced - 3 or 5? Also, I don't know full specifications of it - only that weight was 83 or 88 t, 105 mm gun and armor up to 305 mm (record!). But as for dimensions and engine - different data in different sources....Please, help!

Double post, sorry :D
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 13 Nov 2005 14:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Michael Emrys » 16 Feb 2005 09:52

According to Chamberlain & Ellis, only two examples of pilot models of the T95 Gun Motor Carriage were produced, and one of those was destroyed by fire during trials. They state its battle weight as 190,000lbs, or 95 short tons. It was powered by a Ford GAF V-8 gasoline engine of 410hp.

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USA T28 super-heavy tank

Post by BIGpanzer » 18 Feb 2005 00:29

Thanks for the info, Grease_Spot!
What I found recently about this monstrous tank, that its crew was 6 men, armament - 1 x 105mm gun + 1 x 12.7mm MG + 1 x 7.62mm MG, speed 8 mph. T28 (T95) was planned to use for break the defence zones and had double caterpillars for reducing the pressure. The gun used the armour-piercing (915 m/s) and concrete-piercing shells. External caterpillars was possible to take away.
On the whole the idea of T28 was similar to British A.39 "Tortoise" (6 were produced in 1943-1947, 94mm gun, armor up to 229 mm, 7 men). With the weight of 95 t T28 was the most heavy tank of WWII.
Some sources report that T28 passed front army testing, but this seems unlikely. One T28 survives and can be seen at the Patton museum at Ft. Knox (USA). 25 were planned to produce.....

Photo of the US super-heavy tank (SPG) T28 (2 or 5 copies, 1945)
is from http://www.ww2tanks.com/images/listing_ ... 0%2011.jpg

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Last edited by BIGpanzer on 14 Nov 2005 00:49, edited 7 times in total.

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Martel tankette (1925-1927)

Post by BIGpanzer » 18 Feb 2005 10:57

Switching the conversation to another subject: from super-heavy tanks to super-light...
I am trying also to find some short info about experimental British Martel tankettes (1925-1927) - how much were produced, how many modifications were? Also I need their specifications (I found some, but no data about armament (type of MG) and range, for example). Any info about their using in British army and military testing is very welcome, I don't know about that almost nothing....
Thanks in advance, BIGpanzer.

Photo of the British Martel tankette (1 copy, 1924)
is from http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Grea ... nkette.jpg

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Last edited by BIGpanzer on 14 Nov 2005 00:45, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 21 Feb 2005 17:33

Nobody knows..... :( :( :(
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 14 Nov 2005 00:50, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by BIGpanzer » 22 Feb 2005 18:07

As for Martel tankette, I only found some not detailed specifications: weight - 1.8-2.75 t; crew 1-2 men; armament - 1 MG; armor - 8-10 mm; engine - Maxwell or Morris 16 hp or Crossley 14 hp; speed - 15-25 km/h.
And very short history: major Martel built in 1924 the first tankette in his garage, using details from the Ford truck. In 1925 he demonstrated this hybrid between car and tank to the British Army representatives. A little bit later Morris and Crosley continued to develop Martel's ideas, built 4 test 1-men tankettes in 1926 (Morris) and, probably, only one more (Crosley). One machine was tested with a single rear tire for steering. 8 more were ordered, but the order was cancelled after understanding that a single man had difficulty operating machines and firing a weapon. Also at the same time two British army captains - Carden and Loyd built their own model, which also interested the army. Using the base of "Vickers-Armstrong" factory, according to the military department order, Carden and Loyd created several models of 1-2 men tankettes. The best was the famous Mk.VI.
But what happened with Martel tankettes later and did the British army use them in 1920s at least as testing vehicles, I don't know, unfortunately.....

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Czech KH-50, KH-60, KH-70 wheel-track tanks

Post by BIGpanzer » 22 Feb 2005 19:31

Please help with the info about Czechoslovakian wheel-track tanks KH ("Kolohousenka") - how much were produced? In which units of Czech army did they use or test in 1920s-1930s (some sources report that small amount of KH tanks used as driver training vehicles in Czech army)? Some sources report that 2 KH-60 were built for USSR and 1 KH-70 for Italy, some reports that this is a myth.....Any ideas about it is also very welcome!
Thanks!!!
P.S. Specifications of KH-50: 6,8 t; 2 men; 1 x 37mm gun + 1 MG; 6-13 mm armor; 14-35 km/h; range 120-300 km.
The differences between KH-50, KH-60 and KH-70 are the engine power (50 hp, 60 hp and 70 hp, correspondingly) and the better system of switching between tracks and wheels.

Photo of the Czechoslovakian wheel-track tank KH-50 (2 Kh-50, 2 Kh-60 and 1 Kh-70 were produced, 1925-1930)
is from http://www.military.cz/panzer/tanks/cze ... e/kh70.jpg

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Last edited by BIGpanzer on 14 Nov 2005 19:23, edited 13 times in total.

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