Occupation

Discussions on every day life in the Weimar Republic, pre-anschluss Austria, Third Reich and the occupied territories. Hosted by Vikki.
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Ezboard

Occupation

#1

Post by Ezboard » 29 Sep 2002, 20:09

Don Hardy
Unregistered
(12/30/00 3:59:57 pm)
Reply Occupation
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Hi

I would like to hear about the german and austrian experience of allied occupation after the war.
Either info or suggestions on where I can find more info is fine.

Thanks in advance

Don

Goggi
Member
Posts: 147
(12/31/00 8:11:26 pm)
Reply Occupation
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Don,
After the American Army occupied a town, a bulletin board was set up with "Proclamation #1 in English and German. I still have two statements on two posters in my mind: "The US-Army comes not as liberator, but as a victorious army... and that" hostages will be taken and executed in a ratio of 50 to one for each murdered American soldier". Especially the second statement will be disclaimed now by interested groups, because it puts the US-Army into the same ranking as the worst SS-Units! There were no executions of hostages at all, because nobody was murdered, but I was reading those threatening posters in April 1945 on the market square of my home town in Germany which was occupied by US-forces on April 16, 1945 after two days of fighting. There was also a curfew for the German population: Only a time slot of 11 to 1 PM permitted you to go out on the street.
Goggi

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 88
(1/1/01 12:48:08 am)
Reply Occupation/Germany
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April 16th 1945. On/about that date I was landing in Halle, later went to Saalfeld then Buchenwald and Weimar. Was there one week before the end of the war. By 5th of may the Germans were telling us, they (OKW) had planned to surrender.
It would be interesting to know about your home town ,Goggi sounds like Bavaria or thuringia.

As I stated in Happy new year article, I am Paul Hinkle, live in Waynesboro,Pa. e-mail [email protected].

My german travels include Weimar in 1945, And Nord Bayern in the 1970s, first as a GI then as a US civil service employee. messages are welcome and replies can be expected.

Edited by: pdhinkle at: 3/7/01 12:24:07 pm

Goggi
Member
Posts: 148
(1/1/01 5:28:55 am)
Reply Occupation
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Pdhinkle( Sorry, but I do not know your first name!)
My hometown is (or now, better, was) Erlangen, located 12 miles North of Nuernberg in Northern Bavaria. At this time it was one of the three cities in Bavaria which had a University from 1743 on and the most famous son of our city is the discoverer of one of the basic law's of electricity, Georg Simon Ohm!
Goggi

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 908
(1/3/01 9:26:59 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Goggi,

Can you tell us more about those posters and your experience of (on general info on) the occupation?

/Marcus

Goog
Visitor
(1/4/01 11:22:14 pm)
Reply Occupation
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Markus,
I responded to your nice invitation already yesterday with a long post, on which I worked for hours, but then I hit the wrong button and all was lost! Patience, I will try again!
Goggi

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 914
(1/5/01 7:10:33 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Goggi,

I look forward to it.

/Marcus

Goggi
Member
Posts: 171
(1/12/01 9:20:15 pm)
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The occupation had started, the two day battle for Erlangen was over. There was silence now. No whistling of artillery shells in the air, no sudden "Boom" of exploding mortar shells, no rattling of MG-42s in the streets, no rifle shots anymore - all was silent! Since it was only token resistance, damage was minimal, there was no damage to water supply, power, telephon and sewage system. Surely, the telephone did not work, but it was just switched off! Erlangen, a town of 30.000 people and hospitals with 10.000 wounded soldiers was basically undamaged in the hands of the 3rd US-Infantry Division. There has never been a full air attack: Some people thought, it was declared a hospital town, but I believe the reason for not attacking it, was the lack of heavy industry. During a fight, as light as it was, there are always people killed; One artillery shell was penetrating the basement window of an auxiliary hospital, a real freak unlucky hit, but it exploded in a room full of wounded soldiers killing at least ten of them. Anyway, it was quiet now - the shooting had stopped and single jeeps were passing thru the streets, each eqipped with a Heavy Machinegun and three soldiers. Tanks were kept away from the inner city, but a loudspeaker car told of a curfew from 1 PM to 11 AM for all people. People started to move from crowded basements back into the upper floors. Everybody had sufficient to eat, because the town administration had already in the week before the occupation started, distributed all food from Army depots in an orderly way to the population. The day was April 16, 1945 late afternoon and single civilians were moving cautiously, always clinging to the house fronts, around in the neighbor hood, eagerly collecting news, rumors and facts. In remoter corners of streets you could see Infantry equipment disposed by German soldiers like steel helmets, gas mask containers, rifles, ammunition, and also machine guns like MG-34 and MG-42. I was really tempted to acquire a MG-42 cheaply, but it was impossible to hide, carried the death penalty, and who would have believed me that me, a 15 year old Hitler Youth member, was only an ardent weapon collector, and not a member of the Werwolf Organization, of which the American Military Administration was so much afraid of! Surprisingly during the earlier fighting, there was only very limited air activity, a couple of small, one- engined US-artillery observation planes constantly circling around, but no ground support attacks by fighter planes. Only once, later, as the ground fighting had already stopped, suddenly, a German M-109 was sweeping over the area, strafing the ground and disappearing as fast as it has appeared as all anti-aircraft 2-cm quadruples opened up. It happened so suddenly and lasted only a couple of seconds, but I am still amazed about the short reaction time of the gunners. And the noise of the 4-barreled gun, because I was just standing besides one! (Story to be continued!)
Goggi

DC
Visitor
(1/12/01 10:58:15 pm)
Reply Occupation
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A long time friend of mine grew up in Berlin. She very clearly recalls a few atrocities committed by Soviet troops (Usbekis?).
She still has a few handkerchiefs from the Berlin Airlift parcels that pilots threw out at Templehof Airport. She and her family (those that were still alive in '45) survived afterwards because of the US Army. Of course the same Army (AF) did manage to kill and maim \quite a few people she knew during the war, but afterwards they were quite different.

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 121
(1/14/01 12:18:56 pm)
Reply Occupation/Erlangen
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Goggi:: Please continue, Paul Hinkle [email protected]
new e-mail

I do not want to access this interesting article below what Goggi has written, I can remember Halle, Saalfeld, and Weimar in late April 1945, much the same as Erlangen!

Waiting for more!

Edited by: pdhinkle at: 2/13/01 1:01:18 pm

Goggi
Member
Posts: 181
(1/16/01 5:53:47 am)
Reply Occupation
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(Continuation)
The US combat troops behaved very well: I did not hear about an single incident of rape or murder in my town. They were all looking for alcoholic beverages and when they were getting drunk the behavior, always depending on the character, chanced to blustery or just sleeping off the intoxication in one corner. There was a rule that no German was allowed to stay in a house, when US soldiers were sleeping in it. They threw, therefore, German families out on the street, and moved in for a day or two. Then they usually got the order to move on direction Nuernberg, where still was fighting, because the Antiaircraft batteries of Nuernberg with their precise maps and spare ammunition could hold out for a while, especially since the Gauleiter of Nuernberg, Karl Holz, had remained in his city and died there defending it.-- On the other side of the street of our apartment house, a US artillery unit with 105 mm guns had moved in and taken quarter there. Next day part of it moved on and one man was so much drunk that he almost could not move. He was just lifted up to a truck bed and driven off. He had left his M-1 in loaded condition, a bazooka and his helmet on the spot and I unloaded his rifle (This type of action was completely unknown to me and I did not know, how to close it, after the clip had popped out!). I admired the beautiful paint job on the bazooka rocket and was really surprised that the steel helmet had a plastic helmet inside! This was my first encounter with the armament of the US -Army! Next day the rest of the unit was moving out in the early morning and I was investigating what was left. I found some cans, closed and opened which I took, and also a gallon can with scrambled fried eggs, half empty, which were an excellent filling for our normally empty German stomachs. Besides I found a jerry can full of gasoline which was especially precious.
A bulletin board in front of the town castle was installed and every noon (there were only two hours available due to the curfew) I went there, looking for news. The Declaration # 1 was from crusader Eisenhower that he was not coming as a liberator, but as a victorious army. And everybody had to fall in line, if orders were given or else..! If a soldier would be murdered, 50 hostages would be shot! All weapons, sabres, daggers, radio transmitters and carrier pigeons had to be handed over to the occupation force etc. Blackout would continue and a military administration was installed in the building of the Kreisleitung. --- Nuernberg was still holding (until 21th of April), the artillery could still be heard shooting and everybody waited what the future will bring! (to be continued)
Goggi

Drieu
Visitor
(1/20/01 4:48:52 am)
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One famous victim of the Allied occupation was the modernist Austrian composer Anton Webern. Webern was shot, apparently on accident, by a U.S. Army soldier as he stepped out on the porch of his son-in-law's house for a smoke in Mittersill, Austria. His son-in-law's house was being searched, as I seem to recall, in connection with black market activities. It was apparently after curfew when he stepped out for his ill fated cigar.

Goggi
Member
Posts: 189
(1/21/01 3:03:30 pm)
Reply Ocupation
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(Continuation)
There was more information on the bulletin board: Every German civilian had to step down from the walkway into the street,when he was meeting an American officer walking in the opposite direction! This rule was on the theoretical side, because nobody of these gentlemen walked, but was always sitting in a jeep! I have also never heard that it was enforced by a kick in the backside of some unsuspecting civilian!
There was continous traffic by US-Army supply columnes thru the middle of our town, day and night. All Germans were staring fascinated at the unexhaustible stream of material, cannons, soldiers, bridge building equipment, ambulances, trucks with cranes etc.etc. which was passing every minute. The last City gate, the "Nuernberger Tor", was narrowing the street and restricting the traffic. Suddenly the traffic was stopped, film crews were setting up equipment and taking pictures as engineer troops were becoming active on the old stone design: "Boom" sounded the explosion, bulldozers moved in immediately and pushed old sand stones to both sides and the interrupted traffic direction Nuernberg was resumed: This old city gate was the last victim of the war in my home town. It was never rebuilt, because it was really an obstacle to modern traffic. Now, the old thoroughfare thru the middle of the town is replaced by a road bypassing the center and the inner city zone is for walking only.
Nuernberg had fallen in the meantime (April 21, 1945) and the Third US-Infantry Division under its commander O'Daniel (known by his soldiers as "The Iron Mike") held a victory parade on the Market Square where Hitler during the "Reichsparteitage" always had his parade of the Storm Troopers and
SS-Leibstandarte. It was certainly a proud moment for the soldiers alive, but the fight for Nuernberg and the surrounding area had cost more than 1000 US dead soldiers! I do not know the German losses, but they were probably less, because at this time there was no fighting spirit left in the German army. Apparently Nuernberg was a prestige object to be taken at all cost and to Hell with GI Joe! It could have been outflanked easily and would have surrendered a week later and fallen into the hands of the victors like a ripe plum with no further victims at all! But NO, there had to be a 5-day fight for a heap of rubble with all the unnecessary sacrifices. A temporary cemetery was installed on a sport field and more than 1000 graves were counted by a German witness and documented in his book.
(To be continued)
Goggi

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 137
(1/21/01 11:19:26 pm)
Reply : Occupation/nord Bayern
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I have seen the city after it was rebuilt, Altstadt, sportplatz and more. Now the Autobahn goes around it all, by Bamberg, Erlangen, and Nuernburg. Also a big Canal

Goggi
Member
Posts: 198
(2/2/01 7:49:49 pm)
Reply Occupation
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(Continuation)
I was standing on May 1, 1945 in front of the bulletin board and watched a couple of Sherman-Tanks which had stopped on the other side of the Market square. Suddenly there was some activity, the soldiers were shouting in jubilation and pasted immeadiately the headlines of the "Star&Stripes"-Newspaper on the tanks: It read "Hitler is dead!". This was enough news for the day and I went home and told my mother who did not show any sympathy at all.--
As I told you, Erlangen was not damaged during the war by by bombing and also the two days of fighting left only minimal damage by artillery. There were big army installations there, because the town was home base of Infantry Regt.#21, Artillery Regt.#17 and Panzer-Regt.#25. The army barracks were in good shape and the US-Army occupied all facilities. For the officers the Army confiscated lots of houses in prime locations and turned the German inhabitants with a one-day notice out on the street! Women and children then had to find shelter somewhere with friends or relatives. They could only take a couple of suitcases amd small items, no furniture and bedding. Since no able bodied man were around, my brother and myself were busy helping to move the hapless victims. We also took into our apartment the family of a displaced University Professor who had lost his house on the "Burgberg" to the occupation force. As my brother in front was pulling and I in the rear was pushing our hand waggon,
my eyes were suddenly crossing with the eyes of an elegantly dressed woman in uniform who was sticking out like a sore thumb between all the drab and dirty people milling around and minding their evacuation business: It was Marlene Dietrich with an other actress whom I did not know. Apparently she had an appointment for troop entertainment, was waiting for a car and had stayed overnight in one of the confiscated houses.
There was a No-Fraternization law in effect: US soldiers should show only disgust to Germans: No talking was permitted and it was a crime to give a chocolate bar or a candy to a child! Looking for German girls was a No-No! Left-over food from the army canteens had to be destroyed by burning it or soaking it with Diesel oil. I have to emphasize that only some fanatics followed these instructions to the letter, but that the majority of the common soldiers showed a reasonable attitude. Especially the black soldiers were very friendly to the children by dispensing all the candy goodies! (To be continued)
Goggi

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 167
(2/5/01 12:31:47 am)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Goggi: Glad you made it back, I am also glad to be back. My computer was acting up!So you were lucky enough to see Marlene Dietrich close up! When she was in Italy I got to see her from a 1/4 mile away. I really didn,t know who it was! From that distance! Continue?

Goggi
Member
Posts: 202
(2/10/01 8:14:23 pm)
Reply Occupation
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(Continuation)
After a couple of weeks a civil German administration was established again. On the forefront were Communists and Social Democrates; no right wing parties existed and People were suspect to the US Administration. In such a way, the leftiest had a heyday! Schools started in November 1945 once again; no textbooks were available, all old booke were suspect! Old teachers, too. Some teachers were killed in the war, old teachers were members in party organisations and were assigned to manual labor. Our old Math teacher, an excellent honest God fearing man, who was also Docent on the University for special mathematical courses, could be seen raking leaves and sweeping trails in the "Schlossgarten"! Most surprising to me was the appearance of all kinds of shady charcters in leading positions which they got by connections to the ruling parties and the stupitidy of the US Administration. Like rats from the holes criminal elements claimed to be persecuted politically by the Nazis or to be old concentration camp inmates. Of course it was true in some cases, but generally spoken, the confinement in a Concentration camp did not automatically equip an incorrectible criminal (This was the original group, for which the Concentration camps were designed!) with the financial knowledge to run the treasury of a city! It took months to remove all the swindlers from the ursurped positions!-- The food supply was getting in the second half of 1945 little by little, wors and worse. Everybody, living in a city, was on a starving diet and we teens were all undernourished. And one day in the early 1946ties the "Schul-Speisung" (School feeding) started. Everday a small truck was bringing warm 20-Gallon containers to our school building. Long lines of students were forming and everybody had brought from home a little pot and a spoon and got a big scoop of some kind of stew, mostly potatos, vegetables and a little meat. Sometimes there was Cocoa Mix and a big white roll for everybody and on special days there was a chocolate bar from US Army surplus. These were the especially good days, because the taste of chocolat was almost unkown to us. At this time I was not quite 17 years old and always hungry. Up to today, I am still grateful to the US Quaker Organisation which provided under difficult circumstances our daily meal which kept us alive and going on 5 days of the week: Thank you once again to all Quakers who are reading this post!
(To be continued)
Goggi

von stauffenberg
Member
Posts: 56
(2/12/01 3:09:45 pm)
Reply occupation
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I have a friend who is a Austrian immigrant. He tells me he was too young to join the HJ. He told me that when the troops were coming he and his family were hiding in a barn. He was scared because he was told that the US soldiers were evil. Anyway, the troops found the barn and left a soldier with it. The GI sat down next to my friend and offered his either candy or gum. I forget. THat was when my friend realized that these GIs were OK.

Kaschner
Member
Posts: 53
(2/14/01 7:49:07 am)
Reply Occupation
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Dear Goggi, please continue; your memories of those times are very precious to me. My late wife was German, 13 years old when the war ended, and remembered those days with a mixture of humour and woe. Her Mother, now long gone, used to say when speaking of the time shortly after the war was over "Ach, Kinder, das war eine Zeit! Wir waren alle Hungerkunstlern!"

JimmyHatfield
Member
Posts: 63
(3/8/01 12:37:46 am)
Reply Re: Occupation
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please keep posting goggi, i love reading your posts
"When I am King you will be first against the wall." -Radiohead

Goggi
Member
Posts: 210
(3/15/01 8:44:21 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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To all who like to read my contributions: I will be back in a short while. I was recently diagnosed with Diabetes II and I have to change my life style from couch potato to sport activist training for the Olympics! And, of cause, I have to be on a diet! All very unpleasant, if you are satisfied with an sedentary lifestyle!
Goggi

Ezboard

#2

Post by Ezboard » 29 Sep 2002, 20:10

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 1091
(3/15/01 8:47:17 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Goggi,

I am sorry to hear that and I wish you all the best.

/Marcus

Bert
Visitor
(3/15/01 10:50:42 pm)
Reply Occupation
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Please continue. I find it most interesting.
About your illness, i can tell you that you can live with it, i am a diabetic type II for 4 years now, changed my lifestyle and pills and life goes on.
Waiting for your next typed memories!

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 260
(3/16/01 12:38:22 am)
Reply Occupation/later
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Goggi:: We must take care of ourselves first.Get to doing what the Doctor tells you, to do. Yes exercise does help, with your condition. Then take a few minutes to visit here each day!!

Goggi:: Hope you read this and feel better, come back soon!

Edited by: pdhinkle at: 3/24/01 8:12:32 pm

Kaschner
Member
Posts: 70
(3/16/01 2:17:44 am)
Reply Occupation
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Goggi, I am so sorry to learn of your diagnosis. I know that following the prescribed regime will be a challenge for a while, but it surely beats the alternative. I have a hunch you are tough enough and determined enough to follow through. Best wishes!

Goggi
Veteran Member
Posts: 211
(4/15/01 4:19:09 am)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Happy Easter to All! And thank you all for your good wishes! And now let us slide back into Autumn 1945! 1945.
Winter was approaching and no coal was available for Germans. Winter in Northern Bavaria can be cold,down to -30 C for clear days end of January, beginning of February. We decided, therefore, not to wait for wonders, but to pick up dead wood in the forests encircling Erlangen. We got a permit for doing it from the City administration (Cost 3 Marks). You could pick up little dead branches which were normally thick as a finger and a foot or two long and, if you were lucky enough to find one, you were permitted to cut a dead tree with a diameter of 7 Centimeters. With my father and a borrowed little handwagon we were setting out in the morning doing this very healthy work in the Pine forest around my home town. Since there is poor, sandy soil, almost no underbrush and the trees standing 3 to 4 meters apart, it is easy to move thru, walking and bending, picking up the little twigs. But the area was already picked over, there was not much to pick up! Up to this day I look admiring at the American forests where you could load a truck with dead wood in 10 minutes! So worked we, to load our little wagon, for hours bending, straightening up, getting rid of our excess calories which we just did not have to lose, because all Germans were on a starvation diet anyway!
Entertainment in the evening was the radio: There was always a special newscast at the same time every day about the Nuernberg Trials. A commentator with the name Gaston Ouhlman narrated the daily proceedings. He had a thoroughly unpleasent voice and you could already feel thru the wires his shady character. He posed as a French man and was the typical example of an obvious swindler elevated by the gullible US-Army Administration. A couple of years later the truth came out: His true name was completely different and he was nothing but a common, intelligent criminal right out from a National-Socialistic prison
where his previous swindler career had found an untimely end until he was released by the Occupation Force as a victim of "Nazi Cruelty". Otherwise the published details of the Nuernberg- Trials were met partially with disbelieve or shock by my parents and everybody was very depressed that terrible things had gone on without any public knowledge.
Me, 16 years of age now, had not much interest in politics, because I was in love with a blond girl with green eyes and my thoughts were exclusively with her. All was platonic, of course, considering the time frame of 1945. We met secretly in the afternoon to walk and talk for an hour or so, then she had to rejoin her Grandmother, because it was getting dark. How did I hate this Lady! One day our walk was very romantic and I collected all my braverey and I kissed her on the lips: Unfortunately we lost our balance and were falling together in a tall bush and I was disqualified as a Don Juan right away. At this time I thought it was kind of funny (I still do!), but she did not, because her dress was soiled! This was my first lesson in life that women are reacting in certain situations different from men! A couple of days later she moved back with her Grandmother to their original apartment which the US Forces had temporarily occupied and now released again and we lost contact. (To be cntinued)
Goggi



Madcap7
Member
Posts: 22
(4/15/01 9:52:46 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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WOW! I've never read a story such as yours, such detail, very interesting, I can't wait for the next installment.

Scott Smith
Veteran Member
Posts: 386
(4/15/01 10:02:31 pm)
Reply Re: Occupation
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Ditto.

It's always a pleasure to have you, Goggi.
:-)

Servus!
Scott

dan
Visitor
(4/16/01 12:12:20 am)
Reply goggi
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If everyone was as honest as you, the world would be a better place.
Tell me, how did she respond to you kiss?

Kaschner
Member
Posts: 96
(4/16/01 1:02:39 am)
Reply Occupation
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Goggi, how very good to hear from you again, on this Holy Easter Day. I do hope all goes well with your new régime and that your are getting your problem under control. I'm fascinated by your remembrances of the Occupation times in Germany and I hope to hear many more of them; my late wife lived through those times too and had experiences that she found unforgettable. Best wishes.

pdhinkle
Veteran Member
Posts: 297
(4/16/01 1:17:15 am)
Reply Occupation
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Goggi:: I know and understand every word you have written here. Of Course I was then a much more mature 20 year old GI. Almost as awkward as you. We did not understand fully what we wanted! The physical did follow thru! Wiedersehen

Nick D
Visitor
(4/16/01 5:09:27 am)
Reply Occupation / Vienna
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I have read a relevant book written by a Greek woman.
She was a communist, arrested by Germans during the occupation and sent involuntarily to Vienna, to work camp.
She was there when the Soviets came. The first line troops where definitely of Asian origin according to the author. She describes them more like barbarian hordes and less like an army.
She describes several incidents of raping, destroying of property etc. but I don't remember referring large scale, organized atrocities.
Things got better when more organized soviet troops arrived but in general was a very sad situation.
Unfortunately the book continues in Balkans and Greece since the author left Vienna, so there is no more information for the current topic.
Her book is an excellent example of non-biased witnessing that many of the posters of this group would appreciate. If you really want more details I will try to find the book and re-read it.


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tigre
Member
Posts: 10550
Joined: 20 Mar 2005, 12:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Occupation

#3

Post by tigre » 25 Feb 2017, 22:57

Hello to all :D; a little complement.......................................

US Occupation Troops in Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia (at that time).

Source: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-FORCE-magaz ... 2204530812

Although the journal is from January 1945, the map of the newspaper must be after the end of the war. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Attachments
image009.jpg
Map showing the distribution of the 43 US Army divisions stationed in Germany and other territories of the former Third Reich ............................

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