According to the new "preliminary" info I have, Krysin worked at a farm at "West-Finland" . Don't know at the moment for how long, or was he guarded ( Lapinjärven Veteranikirja mentions a local example where at a big farm, 15 Soviet POW's worked under one guard.)BIGpanzer wrote:By the way, is the info from Stefanovsky's book about gunner sergeant Krysin from Panfilov's crew that he worked till the end of the war at Finnish farm at under the prison guard correct
Don't know what Krysin told to StefanovskyBP wrote:[that was what Krysin told Stefanovsky]?
I used "oil" as in Finnish source it was mentioned as "öljy" (=oil) which normaly means lubrication oil, but also diesel-oil was possible.BP wrote: "Oil" always meant and means lubrication oil here as I prefer to use the term "diesel fuel" instead of "diesel oil". As Panfilov answered to "undercarriage" gunner by telephone and gave orders at first - may be his oxygen equipment [probably, damaged or swithched off because of oil invasion into one of the oxygen cylinder] was the reason of his death.
Both oil types at the gunner position (knee deep at the end) would have caused severe difficulties to the gunner: diesel fumes and high temperature lubrication oil)
Yes, thanks to himBP wrote:thanks for my Russian friend I decided to contact by e-mail, he provided me with the excellent info I never find by myself.
Didn't you earlier have some doubts about the truthfullness of it?BP wrote:this means that telegram from Zhigarev was quite correct (take-off time 21.00-22.00).
IIRC you earler mentioned the Kurban navigator info being logbook based?BP wrote:Kurban's navigator remembered in his memoires the exact route excellent and his timetable was also quite good, but he mistaked in take-off timetable of their bomber for some reason [IIRC he wrote 20.20, damn I don't like to scroll the whole thread, sorry].
Do you have any sources that back up the "Liepaja option" ?BP wrote:Very probably, Krysin mentioned crash time 02.03 according to Finnish time and he remembered it as somebody told him about it in prison [so it should be 03.03], and flight lasted 5 hours. I meant that if the bomber was shelled by AA artillery during the 3rd hour of flight [you can forgot about crash time for a second] and it had the speed 380 km/h [well, during the first hour of flight less because of climbing], so the distance between Pushkino and point of AA fire was 280-300 km [1st hour] + 380 [2nd hour] + ?km [beginning of the 3rd hour] =>700 km, right? Where it could be? Most probably - near Liepaja [the route passed between Liepaja and Gottland, see above]. This is my assumption
I have some doubts about the 380km/h cruise speed. In theory some storm wind could have pushed the plane to that, but how about the return flight, shouldn't they then have fased similar storm head-wind?
Or followed the storm wind them pushing them everywhere they turned?
BP earlier wrote:one source also which mentions-"TB-7 of senior lieutenant Panfilov was knocked down by AA artillery of Baltic Sea Navy by mistake, the aircraft crashed in Finland....." - http://www.deol.ru/manclub/war/sdo5.htm
Do you know where this info is based?
You're welcome.BP wrote:Juha wrote:Also - Tyko and Hjalmar Blomqvist, according to the Finnish auto-magazine 4/89
Thanks for the correction. Unger mentioned them as brothers Tiko and Haalmar Blomkrist also [I just transliterated their names directly from Russian newspaper text].
Seems to be another example of "back and forth translations" Like the Puusepp case.
I don't know the answer at the moment.BP wrote:Only two crewmembers could return back to USSR after WWII [three others were missing, no info about them, how it is possible? - BP].Juha earlier wrote:
If they didn't return to USSR after the war, there are several options:
- he died during the war in Finland
-he were send to Germany (Finland had an exhange program with Germany during the war: we got Fenno-Ugric POW's from German camps inexhange of our Soviet POW:s)
-he co-operated with Finns and fled to West after the war. ( a personal memory from the past v.....ht=#333828 (also scroll down a bit)
No, I meant how it was possible that Finns don't have the exact info about them. In any case [death, sending to Germany, co-operation - Antipov, probably ] it should be mentioned somewhere in Finnish sources. But Soviet newspaper gave the info that nobody knows and Finnish Government made several attempts but couldn't help according to Soviet request after WWII.
Just recently a new program to check the fates of POW's in Finland started. Perhaps it can help.
IIRC papers of those POW's that co-operated (in larger scale) with Finns during the wars, in several cases disappeared. (they moved to west or were given a new, Finnish identity)
I know, happens often here tooBP wrote:Juha wrote:Hmmm...as 'm not very good at maths... but from 1982 to 1989 isn't that much.
Sorry, for unknown reason I was sure this evening that "Mobilisti" was from 1996. Probably, brain tiredness
BP wrote: Are all names of six crewmembers mentioned by Finnish memorial? Still no photo of it......When it was installed exactly?
-IIRC the names are there
-Patience, I will visit the place when the snow has melted at the woods (around April)
viewtopic.php?t=93670&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120Juha earlier wrote: Lapinjärven Veteraanikirja (Book of Veterans of War of Lapinjärvi) mentions the following:
On May 5th 1985 the memorial plate (at the rock were the plane hit when force landing) of the fallen TB-7 crew was exposed. The memorial plate was raised and the event of exposing it was organised by local (left-wing organisation of) Finnish Communist Party (SKP:n vähemmistösiiven Uudenmaan osasto). Soviet, DDR, and Bulgarian embassies had send representatives to honour the event.
Member of Soviet veterancommittee German Stepan made a speech, whis is mentioned to have been an unpolitical and pragmatic.
Two years later the widows and relatives of the crew members made a honouring visit to the memorial. The event was very warm-hearted and emotional. The delegation also paid a visit and laid flowers to the Lapinjärvi heroes cemetery.
At that Finnish cemetery the widow of an officer, Rozina Gainedtiova (widow of the flight engineer A. Gaiputdinov you mentioned?), made a speech where she for instance said: "Let us wish that we never would be a war between us"
Every summer Soviet delegaions visit the memorial.
Yes, thank you.BP wrote: Have you seen your e-mail already?
Haven't had time to analyze it yet.