Heavy and long-range bombers of the allies - exact losses

Discussions on every day life in the Weimar Republic, pre-anschluss Austria, Third Reich and the occupied territories. Hosted by Vikki.
User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 24 Mar 2006 19:20

Hi, Jon G!
Thanks for the reply, I will post this very interesting info very soon.
As for the long-range bombing operations of Pe-8 against German cities as well as against Finnish, Romanian, Hungarian capitals - I've posted above almost all I could find. Pe-8 were the single Soviet planes which could carry super-heavy 5.4-t bombs. Heavy bombers Pe-8 were used also very widely as tactical bombers against heavy artillery positions, tank columns, railroad centres and airfields during the whole war. Also they were used as cargo transport planes sometimes (Leningrad front), as high altitude long-range reconnaissance planes, they dropped paratroopers behind enemy lines (Pe-8 could transport 50 paratroopers with ammunition), participated in special missions (for example, flight of Soviet foreign minister Molotov from Moscow to Washington and back in May 1942 over the occupied Europe and Atlantic). So despite their small amount the role of Pe-8 in WWII was quite significant.

Zygmunt
Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: 31 May 2002 19:50
Location: Wielka Brytania

Post by Zygmunt » 24 Mar 2006 22:42

I find myself in a similar position to Jon G; I have posted everything I know about Pe-8 losses, and don't have anything else I can contribute to this thread - but I'm reading BIGpanzer's posts with interest.

Zygmunt

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 25 Mar 2006 00:02

Thanks, Zygmunt! I will post the full list of Pe-8 (TB-7) bombers when I will have time.

Here are several additional photos I could find:
http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/ikonnik1.jpg (tail turret of Pe-8 No. 42057, Kratovo airfield)
http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/ikonsug.jpg (Pe-8 No. 42028, Kratovo airfield, beg. 1943)
http://www.iremember.ru/pilots/vaulin/k ... uratov.jpg

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 27 Mar 2006 00:06

I've already mention that Soviet heavy bombers Pe-8 had quite powerful defense armament (usually 2x7.62mm + 2x12.7mm + 2x20mm). Since July 1944 all Pe-8 should be additionally equipped with special package DAG-10 for 10 air grenades AG-2 (those spherical grenades with parachute exploded in 3-4 s after release and destroyed attacking fighters by 130 fragments (weight 3-80 g) within a radius of 35 m).

Also one interesting fact - heavy bombers Pe-8 were used in experimental shots of buzz bombs with ramjet engines (designer - V. Chelomey, Soviet analogues of V-1) since 09.1944 (those buzz bombs had speed 900 km/h and range up to 240 km). Three Pe-8 were reequipped for such purpose in 1944-1945, two more - in 1946. But Pe-8 as buzz bombs carriers were not used at the front (or I couldn't find such info), those were only experimental tests (near 150 shots were made till 1950).

PS I am working on the full list of all 93 Pe-8 at the moment as I've promised :wink:
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 27 Mar 2006 08:38, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 04 Apr 2006 05:23

Tha fate of the heavy bombers TB-7 (Pe-8).

1.No. 4201 – prototype ANT-42, it was built in autumn 1936, first flight 27.12.1936.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRN (930-1200 hp) + 1xM-100 (750 hp) as turbocharger.
1st test pilot – Hero of USSR colonel Gromov, 2nd test pilot – Rybko.
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan// ... cs/1_7.jpg

2.No. 4202, Blue 1 – improved doubler ANT-42, first flight 07.1938.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35 (1120 hp) and 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Otkidach (later – major, squadron commander), later – Kokorev.
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan// ... cs/1_1.jpg

3.No. 4211 – first prototype series.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
That first serial bomber should participate in air parade over Moscow from Chkalovskoe airfield 01.05.1940, but its main landing gear didn’t extend completely during the landing on Chkalovskoe airfield 30.04.1940, bomber made emergency landing (1st pilot – colonel Gromov), was damaged (repaired soon) and didn’t participate in parade.
The bomber was lost on the ground 25.06.1941 (destroyed or heavily damaged), when the 2nd air squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers (Borispol airfield, Ukraine) was bombed by German aviation.
http://www.aviapress.com/magaz/avk/avk2 ... 0205_9.jpg (No. 4211 after emergency landing 30.04.1940)

4.No. 4212, Blue 8 since 05.1943, later Blue 9 – first prototype series.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Kanarskij, later – Remizov.
The bomber was wrecked 18.08.1943.

5.No. 4213 – first prototype series.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Dodonov (later participated in many bombing raids, including raids over Orel in summer 1943).
The bomber was lost on the ground 25.06.1941 (destroyed or heavily damaged), when the 2nd air squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers (Borispol airfield, Ukraine) was bombed by German aviation.

6.No. 4214, Blue 2 – first prototype series, built 15.03.1940.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - squadron commander major Otkidach, later – Ivanov.
The bomber was wrecked 13.07.1944 (probably, during relocating to the new airfield Alsuf’evo, which had ground flight strip, not concrete, and was used for more light B-25 Mitchell bombers after that).

7.No. 4215, Blue 3, Blue 7 since 02.1942 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – senior lieutenant Nemkov, later – major Asyamov (participated in the first raid against Berlin, made 48 combat flights, died 30.04.1942 during catastrophe (burnt in flight) of transport plane D.H.95 Flamingo 200 km from London).
Probably, the bomber was wrecked 03.03.1943, but another sources (including memoires of Pe-8's pilots) mention that Nemkov made flights on 4215 over Orel in summer 1943 at least.

8.No. 4216 – first prototype series.
Engines: 4xAM-34FRNV (1050-1200 hp) + 1xM-100A (860 hp) as turbocharger; later – 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
The bomber participated in air parade over Moscow 01.05.1940 (1st pilot - Kabanov), it was the first bomber was given to 14th air regiment.
1st pilot - Datsko (was killed 08.09.1941 during air combat over Leningrad as fighter pilot), later – major Kurban (participated in raids against Berlin).
The bomber crashed (catastrophe) 01.12.1940 during the flight to Karelia/Finnish border because of pilot mistake, 6 crewmembers were killed.

9.No. 4217 – serial TB-7, was built 29.10.1941.
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – squadron commander, lieutenant colonel Lavrovskij, later – Ugrjumov.
The bomber participated in bombing operations against German fortifications at Kursk 07.1943 from Kratovo airfield.

10.No. 4218, Blue 1 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Dmitriev.

11.No. 4219 – serial TB-7
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Pakhomchik.
The bomber was lost on the ground 25.06.1941 (destroyed or heavily damaged), when the 2nd air squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers (Borispol airfield, Ukraine) was bombed by German aviation.

12.No. 4220 – serial TB-7
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Makarenko.
The bomber was lost on the ground 25.06.1941 (destroyed or heavily damaged), when the 2nd air squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers (Borispol airfield, Ukraine) was bombed by German aviation.

13.No. 4221 – serial TB-7, was built 05.10.1940.
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp), later 4xASh-82 (1540-1700 hp).
1st pilot – Lisachev.

14.No. 4222 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35 (1120 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – Fedorenko (killed in action).
The bomber crashed (catastrophe) 18.10.1941, 11 crewmembers were killed.

15.No. 4223 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
The bomber was lost on the ground 25.06.1941 (destroyed or heavily damaged), when the 2nd air squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers (Borispol airfield, Ukraine) was bombed by German aviation.

To be continued........
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 02 Dec 2006 00:06, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Heinzrichter
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 12:01
Location: Copenhagen

sorry im late

Post by Heinzrichter » 17 Apr 2006 12:37

Hi all
i just found this forum to day. so im sorry that i make this post so late.
It refers to the mention of The Memphis Belle to be the first B17 to make 25 missions, im sorry but that plane was not the first to do that.
The 91st BG(H) "Memphis Belle" was not the 1st 8th AF B-17 to complete 25
missions.
Captain Morgan was not the first 8th AF Aircraft Commander to complete 25
missions
See: http:"//www.303rdbga.com/h-ha-mb.html
The 25 mission record is as follows --
Hell's Angels B-17F - 13 May 1943
Capt Baldwin - 14 May 1943 (Original Hell's Angels Pilot)
Capt Morgan - 17 May 1943 (Original Memphis Belle Pilot)
Memphis Belle B-17F- 19 May 1943
Memphis Belle was the first 8th AF B-17 to complete 25 missions and return
to the USA..
That is her only legitimate 25 mission claim to fame.

Captain Jim Verinis, original Copilot on the Morgan Crew, flew only a few
missions with Capt Morgan and the Memphis Belle. He was upgraded from CoPilot
to Pilot and completed his 25 missions several dfays before Capt Morgan.The
crew that flew Memphis Belle to the USA was a make up crew of men who had
completed 25 missions. All were not members of the the original Capt Morgan's
Memphis Belle Crew.
The 91st BG(H) B-17 "Delta Rebel" flew her 25th mission on 15 May 1943 -
four days before Memphis Belle flew 25.
thats the real 25 record list
Memphis Belle went home to the state . Hell´s angels keept flying and did 48 missions and was scrapped 14 Aug 1945 i guess that they did not want to have it flying to many missions but i will try to find out.
in the 303rdBG there was 6 B17 that made 100+ missions the list is as follows
Sweet Rose O'Grady #42-39885
B-17G 427BS (GN-R&Z)
Assigned: 30 Dec 1943
Fate: scrapped 06 Jun 1945
Missions: 134 (top in 303rd

Neva - The Silver Lady #43-37590
B-17G 358BS (VK-Q)
Assigned: 06 Jun 1944
Fate: scrapped 27 Jun 1945
Missions: 127

Thunderbird #42-38050
B-17G 359BS (BN-U)
Assigned: 18 Jan 1944
Fate: scrapped 21 Dec 1945
Missions: 112

Daddy's Delight #42-97944
B-17G 359BS (BN-I)
Assigned: 02 Jun 1944
Fate: salvaged 13 Dec 1945
Missions: 108

The Floose #42-97298
B-17G 358BS (VK-H)
Assigned: 21 May 1944
Fate: crash landed 24 Dec 1944
Missions: 102

Buzz Blonde #42-39875
(aka Thru Hel'en Highwater)
B-17G 427BS (GN-S)
Assigned: 14 Jan 1944
Fate: MIA 10 Jan 1945
Missions: 100

Heinz Richter

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 11 May 2006 23:20

Thanks for the very interesting info, Heinz!
So if your info is correct huge amount of sources make a mistake mentioning B-17F "Memphis Belle" as the first B-17 to complete 25 combat missions :roll: :? Many sources mention that bomber as the first WWII bomber to complete 25 missions even which seems absolutely wrong taking into account German, Soviet and British bombers :o . If we are talking about heavy bombers - for example, Soviet pilot major Rodnykh made 100(!) combat missions by February 1943 on two heavy bombers Pe-8, which were used quite seldom in comparison with medium bombers!

http://www.memphis-belle.com/belle_story.htm (history of B-17F "Memphis Belle", No. 41-24485) - 25th mission was made on 17 May, 1943

User avatar
Heinzrichter
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 12:01
Location: Copenhagen

Memphisbelle not the first to complete 25

Post by Heinzrichter » 12 May 2006 00:29

BIGpanzer i know that wat i have written is correckt.
if you today send a letter ti MRS. Linda Morgan you will get the reply " Its over 60 years ago how thinks about wether it was Memphis Belle or HellsAngels, so why not let it rest"
But the Real story is as i wrote
The Hells Angles did her 25 mission on 13 May 1943
Target: Potes Aircraft Factory, Meaulte, France
25th Combat Mission of B-17F #41-24577 Hell's Angels 358th BS (VK-D)
The 358th BS B-17F #41-24577 Hell's Angels (VK-D), from which the 303rd BG(H)
later named itself, completed its 25th combat mission on 13 May 1943. It became
the first 8th Air Force B-17 to complete 25 combat missions, winning the race for
this honor with the 359th BS B-17F Knockout Dropper, the 91st BG(H) B-17F
Memphis Belle and several other B-17s that were striving to be the first to complete
25 missions.
The above is from the mission sides from the 303bg
as you can see it is official that Hellangles was the first. and Memphis Belle the 3 or 4 plane to do 25.

by the way the official records are that Memphis Belle´e last mission wat to Ludwigshafen
her 25 Mission was to the submarines pens at Lorient France at the 17 may 1943.???? got that from http://WWW.b17flyingfortress.de. but must be a typo
as the webmaster HAS ANSWERD ME ON THE QUESTION ON THE BELLE AND 25 and admitted that i was right

HeinzRichter

http://www.123hjemmeside.dk/b17


I´m working on a MemphisBEllle site
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 13 May 2006 12:18

Thanks, Heinzrichter, a very interesting info!!!

.....................................
I continue to post the info about fates of Soviet heavy bombers TB-7 (Pe-8). As I've mentioned earlier I am trying to find the info about all 93 produced bombers of that type - and this is really very hard, so please enjoy my post :wink: Any opinions and additional info are always very welcome!

16. No. 4224 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – captain (later major) Tyagunin (ex-polar pilot, participated in bombing raids against Berlin)
The bomber was wrecked 11.10.1941.

17. No. 4225, Blue 6, Red 8 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – deputy squadron commander, major Rodnykh (later lieutenant colonel, Hero of USSR in 1943, participated in the raids against Berlin in 1941-42 and bombing raids during the initial stage of Battle of Kursk, made more than 100 night long-range bombing raids on Pe-8 till 02.1943).
That first bomber TB-7 with diesels was finished 09.1940, first flight – 13.10.1940 (1st pilot - Bajdukov), since spring 1941 – test high-altitude flights with diesel engines M-40F (airfield Ramenskoe, Flight Research Institute of People’s Commissariat of Aviation Industry). It was found that turbo-compressors for diesels were not reliable despite the fact that diesels increased flying range a lot (up to 5460 km), so they were replaced on usual AM-35A.

18. No. 4226 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – 81st bomber division commander, brigade commander/major-general Vodopianov (one of the first Hero of USSR, world famous civil and polar pilot, leader of the first Pe-8 raid against Berlin 10.08.1941).
The bomber was damaged by German AA fire 07.11.1941 during the heroic day raid (2 Pe-8) against German tank column, which tried to capture Kaluga during the Battle for Moscow. German tank unit was successfully attacked by Pe-8 from low altitude, but all two bombers were heavily damaged by AA fire and scrapped after return.

19. No. 4227 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – senior lieutenant Ischenko (ex-civil pilot, major and squadron commander since 03.1943, Hero of USSR, 135 combat flights including raids against Berlin, Orel, Smolensk, Koenigsberg, Helsinki; killed 09.1945 in air catastrophe), later – major Kurban (participated in the raids against Berlin).
The bomber was built 10.04.1940, the second produced TB-7 with diesels. Several test flights were made from airfield of Research Institute of Air Force, since May 1941 – test high-altitude flights with diesel engines M-30 (airfield Ramenskoe, Flight Research Institute of People’s Commissariat of Aviation Industry), those tests were not finished as the war began.
The bomber wrecked 10.07.1942 when one engine was stopped in flight, but Pe-8 successfully bombed Orel by 2x1000-kg and 8x250-kg bombs. Fuel system was damaged by German AA fire and on its return way the rest three engines were stopped near home airfield Kratovo, Ischenko successfully made emergency landing.

20. No. 42015, Red 5 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – captain Ponomarenko (ex-polar pilot), later - Alekseev.
The bomber was built in the end of 1940 (the first TB-7 with AM-35A engines). 28.03.1941-25.06.1941 – test flights (Research Institute of Air Force, 265 flight hours, 38 flights). That bomber participated in raids against Berlin, Koenigsberg, Budapest, Bucharest.
The bomber made catastrophe landing in bad fog weather 28.10.1942 (5 crewmembers were killed, also two another bombers were damaged on the airfield). Captain Ponomarenko was reduced to the ranks for this (became 2nd pilot), but later he was reinstated (became colonel and Hero of USSR later).
http://www.aviapress.com/magaz/avk/avk2 ... 0205_6.jpg (No. 42015 with the special compartment for paratroopers)

21. No. 42025, Blue 2 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xM-30 diesels.
1st pilot – senior lieutenant Peregudov, later – major Pusep (ex-polar pilot, future colonel, regimental commander, Hero of USSR, made several flights on Pe-8 to Great Britain and transported Soviet minister of foreign affairs on Pe-8 to USA and back in May 1942; participated in many Pe-8 long-range bombing raids)
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941, returned back to Pushkin airfield successfully.
The bomber was lost 07.11.1941 during the night raid (as single airplane) against Danzig power plant – German large power plant was destroyed successfully but on the return trip Pe-8 got down because of navigator’s mistake and was shelled by German AA guns, 4th engine was in fire and all crewmembers bailed out over the Soviet territory.

22. No. 42035, Blue 3 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – lieutenant Bidniy, later – major Kurban.
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941 – the left outer engine M-40F cought fire over the enemy territory but the crew could put out a fire and the bomber continued the flight with decreasing of altitude, bombs were dropped 370 km from Berlin because of strong decreasing of altitude and Pe-8 returned back (on the return trip another engine stopped and bomber landed on Obukhovo airfield instead of home airfield Pushkino).
The bomber was wrecked 27.06.1942 because of pilot’s mistake.

23. No. 42045, Blue 5 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp).
1st pilot – captain (later major) Tyagunin.
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941 – on the return trip one engine was stopped and in addition Soviet naval AA artillery shelled and hit the bomber over the Baltic Sea by mistake (bomber and 5 crewmembers were lost during the emergency wheels-up landing).

24. No. 42055, Blue 7 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – major Ugryumov (killed in action)
The bomber was built in summer 1941 (the single bomber with M-30 diesels in August 1941), participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941 – during the raid unreliable diesels stopped several times at high altitude, the bomber bombed Berlin successfully and landed in Torzhok instead of home airfield Pushkino because of lack of fuel. That bomber made the most combat flights among diesel TB-7s by the end of 1941.
The bomber was lost in catastrophe 21.02.1942 during the landing on airfield of Kazan aircraft factory No 22 after the test flight (7 crewmembers were killed).
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan// ... s/1_22.jpg

25. No. 42016, Blue 1 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – major Kurban.
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941, bombed Berlin successfully and was damaged by German AA fire; made emergency landing at Ropsha (wrecked).

26. No. 42026 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – senior lieutenant Panfilov (killed in action).
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941 – heavily damaged by AA fire over Germany, dropped bombs and tried to return back, 2 engines stopped because of lack of oil and the bomber made emergency landing on Finnish territory (6 crewmembers were killed, others were captured by Finns at front line).

27. No. 42036, Blue 8 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – brigade commander/major-general Vodopianov, 2nd pilot – major (later colonel) Pusep.
The bomber participated in the first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin 10.08.1941 – it was attacked by Soviet fighters I-16 by mistake but could reach Berlin and dropped bombs, was damaged by German AA fire over Berlin (outer right engine was stopped, fuel system was damaged), shelled by German AA artillery over Koenigsberg on the return trip (fuel system was damaged again, all engines stopped) and made emergency landing on Estonian territory, occupied by Germans. Crewmembers reached Soviet positions in 2 days thanks to 2nd pilot Pusep, who was Estonian and talked with native population. Then crewmembers returned back to the crashed bomber and exploded it to prevent its capture.

28. No. 42046, Blue 7 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – major Egorov (killed in action).
The bomber was lost 10.08.1941 (first raid of Soviet heavy bombers against Berlin) because of technical failure (2 right engines stopped during take-off), 6 crewmembers were killed.

29. No. 42056 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-40F diesels (1250-1500 hp)
1st pilot – Nemet (test pilot of Kazan air factory No 124, killed in action), 2nd pilot – Sumtsov (killed in action).
The bomber was lost 13.11.1941 during the factory 5-hours test flight with new diesels before departure to the front – second engine caught fire (because of disconnection of engine connecting rod as was found later) and bomber burnt. 5 crewmembers bailed out, 4 were killed, the 10th crewmember (factory military representative Grigorenko) had a narrow escape – he couldn’t bail out because of strong fire inside the bomber, lied down in tail section and rolled up into canvas covers of engines – he survived without any damages after exploded bomber crash from 5000 m altitude! 8O

30. No. 42066, Red 1 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot – major Pusep (2nd pilot – major Obukhov), later – senior lieutenant Zelenskiy (participated in the first raids over Germany).
Bomber participated in flights to Great Britain as well as in bombing raids.
Famous bomber (with 4xAM-35A) – it transported Soviet minister of foreign affairs Molotov with his secretariat to USA (Moscow-Washington) and back over the Germany and Atlantic (19.05.1942-12.06.1942) with intermediate landings in Scotland, Iceland and Canada during the very bad stormy weather to avoid German interceptor fighters over Europe (Pe-8 made flight at 7000 m altitude with 500 km/h speed). The flight had range ~17800 km. Only additional seats and oxygen equipment were added in the central part of the bomber, but minister and 6 secretaries (including women) sat in fur flight suits and oxygen masks at a usual temperature –40 Celsius inside the bomber. 2 pilots and 2 navigators of the bomber were awarded with Stars of the Hero of USSR for that very successful long-range flight (which showed that engines AM-35 were much more reliable than diesels with their turbo-compressor problems at high altitudes); also US president Roosevelt had a talk with them and thanked them.
It should be noted that all TB-7 (Pe-8) were equipped with autopilot and horizon indicator for long-range flights, also with fixed loop radio compass and trailing 80-m antenna. No. 42066 had additional (to standard 19) fuel tanks and additional (to standard 20x8 litres + 4x4 litres + 2 portable oxygen bottles) oxygen equipment for the flight to USA
The bomber made emergency landing 17.10.1943 after combat flight.
http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan// ... s/1_11.jpg
http://www.aviapress.com/magaz/avk/avk2 ... 0205_8.jpg (No. 42066 in Washington, surrounding by USAF pilots)

To be continued..........

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 16 May 2006 17:37

Found some additional photos of TB-7 (Pe-8):
http://www.russianwarrior.com/1941vehicle_Pe-8pict.htm (summer 1943, heading for enemy lines)
http://www.aviapress.com/magaz/avk/avk2 ... 0205_5.jpg (April 1941, preparation to the bombing raid)
http://www.aviapress.com/magaz/avk/avk2 ... 0205_7.jpg

Will post the info about fates of another heavy bombers of this type soon :wink:

PS As I understand the main technical problem of Pe-8 (which was in principle better than all other heavy bombers of WWII except more modern B-29) was quite unreliable diesel engines - they could catch fire suddenly or stopped at high altitudes (and to fight a fire with special engine fire extinguishers as well as restart the engines in flight was not easy). Later the problem was solved by installation reliable high-altitude AM-35A engines despite the fact that bombers with them had less flying range than bombers with diesels.
Also those heavy bombers (which were produced only in 93 copies and were quite rear at the front in comparison with other aircraft) suffered from friendly fire - Soviet AA artillery and fighters very often opened fire when saw Pe-8 (thinking that this is German FW200 Condor). Gunners of Pe-8 opened defensive fire against such fighters also............I even found a mention that after one landing the crewmembers (11 men) of one Pe-8 went to the fighter airfield, found the stupid pilot who didn't see red stars on wings and fuselage and slightly damaged their bomber, and strongly beat him (after that all were arrested for rowdiness but released as front needed in experienced bomber pilots) :D

Just for the info the list of crewmembers of Pe-8: 1st pilot/bomber commander, 2nd pilot, aeronavigator/front gunner, assistant aeronavigator, flight engineer, assistant flight engineer, flight radio operator, central gunner, tail gunner, right undercarriage gunner, left undercarriage gunner.

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 30 Oct 2006 20:12

After a very long pause I would like to continue posting the info about every copy of Soviet heavy bomber TB-7 (Pe-8). The info about bombers 1-30 see above.

31. No. 42076, Red 3 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
The bomber was produced on 21 October, 1941.
1st pilot - captain (in 1941) Makarenko, later - Adamov.

32. No. 42086 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - Kiryanov.
The bomber crashed on 24 August, 1943 - 6 crewmembers were killed (emergency landing after air combat or AA fire?).

33. No. 42096 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
The bomber was produced on 1 November, 1941.
1st pilot - lieutenant (in 1941) Bidny (participated in the first air raid against Berlin in August 1941 as pilot of TB-7 No. 42035).
The bomber was knocked down by German AA fire on 22 August, 1942 - 8 crewmembers (including Bidny) were killed.

34. No. 420106 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xM-30 diesels (1250-1500 hp), later 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - lieutenant (in 1941) Bidny.
The bomber crashed(?) without losses among crewmembers on 21 July, 1942.

35. No. 42017 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - commander of the 746th heavy bomber regiment of 45th long-range air division(since spring 1942), major Egorov (participated in the first air raid against Berlin in August 1941 as pilot of TB-7 No. 42046).
The bomber was lost (catastrophe) in bad wather on 3 May, 1942 - 10 crewmembers (including Egorov) were killed.

36. No. 42027, Red 9 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - Masalev.
The bomber crashed on 14 September 1942 (technical failure) - 2 crewmembers were killed.

To be continued...... :wink:

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 6773
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 31 Oct 2006 02:07

I wonder if anyone has any information of Japanese long range air operations?

Custermen
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Aug 2002 06:41
Location: Memphis - USA

Post by Custermen » 31 Oct 2006 04:39

Heinzrichter stated thusly;
I´m working on a MemphisBEllle site


Cool. If you want some photos of her dismantled, I have some taken 2(?) years ago when it was crated up and shipped back to the USAF. The USAF said the city of Memphis was not taking good care of her and gave them a few years to find a better facility to display her. It never happened. Now that the USAF has her they say it will take 8 years before she will be ready for public display.

Steve
Once home of the Memphis Belle

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 31 Oct 2006 05:26

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any information of Japanese long range air operations?


Hmm, this is off-topic a little bit, as we are discussing here the losses of Allied long-range bombers :) Anyway there are a lot of info in the literature about Japanese raids on G3M (range 6230 km for G3M3 mod.23 with additional fuel tanks) against Hawaii, Thailand, Philippines, Guam, Hong Kong, etc. and on G4M (range 4720 km for G4M2) against Philippines, China, Australia, New Guinea.

As for famous B-17 "Memphis Belle" - there are several interesting photos on its official site also. See http://www.memphisbelle.com/index.php

Am I right that none of Soviet heavy bombers TB-7(Pe-8) is preserved? :( AFAIK those bombers were used after WWII for tests of new engines, air equipment and weapon (also as carriers for guided missiles); several bombers were given to civil and polar aviation for use as special express transport planes (take-off weight ~ 35 t), flying laboratories and air tankers for Arctic region............All were scrapped in 1950s or later :cry: :x I found a mention that Museum of Russian Air Forces in Monino had wreckage of one Pe-8 several years ago but what happened with those unique pieces of one of the best WWII heavy bombers I don't know.

User avatar
BIGpanzer
Member
Posts: 2812
Joined: 12 Dec 2004 22:51
Location: Central Europe

Post by BIGpanzer » 31 Oct 2006 20:12

Continue to post info about TB-7 (Pe-8):

37. No. 42037, Blue 2 – serial TB-7.
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - captain Sukorkin (commander of the 1st air squadron of 362th long-range bomber regiment), later - major Rodnykh (hero of USSR for 100 combat flights on Pe-8).
The bomber was knocked down by German AA fire on 13 May, 1943 - 3 crewmembers were killed, other 9 bailed out (they were captured by Germans, but 2nd pilot major Galai and navigator could avoid capture and reached Soviet line).

38. No. 42047 - experimental TB-7 with M-82 engines from Su-2, because the production of AM-35 engines was stopped to increase the production of AM-38 for Il-2.
Engines: 4xM-82 (1330-1700 hp).
The bomber was tested (Airfield of Kazan aircraft factory) in the end of 1941, but the speed didn't increase in comparison with TB-7 with AM-35 engines (flying range increased). The main tests were made 03.04.-24.10.1942 by famous pilot Vodopianov. 22 flights were made (58 h of flight time). Normal flight weight - 27 t (max - 35 t), 11 men crew, 2 t of bombs, 4095 kg of fuel (max - 11595 kg). It was decided to start the production of TB-7 with M-82 engines in series.

39.No. 42057, Red 2 (Red 6 from May 1943, 2nd air squadron of 746th long-range bomber regiment).
Engines: 4xAM-35A (1200-1350 hp).
1st pilot - captain (later major) Dodonov (Hero of USSR for 100 combat flights on Pe-8); later - major Ishchenko.
The bomber participated in many operations - 02.09.1942 accurately dropped FAB-500 bomb in the centre of Warsaw Comissariat building (where the presence of Hitler expected); bombed Budapest in September 1942; 19.06.1943 dropped super-heavy bomb FAB-5000 on Orel railway station.
http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/ikonnik1.jpg (regiment navigator Ikonnikov near his Pe-8 No. 42057)
http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/dodonush.jpg (pilot Dodonov)
http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/ishenko_na1.jpg (pilot Ishchenko, he was killed 12.09.1945 during air catastrophe)
http://wp.scn.ru/ru/ww2/b/674/1/1/14 (No. 42057 with tail gun turret of Mozharovsky-Venevidov construction, 45th Guard long-range air regiment, Balabasovo airfield, 1945)

Return to “Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic”