Grille Normady 44

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
SIS 5
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Re: Grille Normady 44

#31

Post by SIS 5 » 06 Jul 2020, 13:03

Hi Ian,

a little correction:
the first Steyr 1500 appeared in Lybia with Dora. The pic Paul posted is a photograph made in Libya. It is the unit "Dora" on the way between Hon and Bis Safaya. The Lybian oasis town Hon was the basis of this unit. Here two more pics of this unit with Steyr 1500 leaving their base in Hon.
Source of the pics: "Incident at Jebel Sherif" by Kuno Gross and Roberto Chiarvetto and Brendan O'Carroll. Sorry for the bad quality.

Regards

Bert
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Steyr 1500 Lybia - 1.png
Steyr 1500 Lybia - 1.png (383.28 KiB) Viewed 763 times
Steyr 1500 Lybia - 2.png
Steyr 1500 Lybia - 2.png (159.87 KiB) Viewed 763 times

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#32

Post by yantaylor » 06 Jul 2020, 16:04

Thats okay Bert Thanks for the photos, I think that small vehicles like this have charm and certainly beats having a collection of just tanks.

Ian


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Re: Grille Normady 44

#33

Post by spannermann » 06 Jul 2020, 16:08

Hi Ian,
You could copy, in model form, the OOB that Bert has listed for "Dora", would look great.

Can see the white shield and scorpion unit badge on the bonnet of the first Steyr above. A lot of those vehicles are available in 1/72.

Hi Bert,
For what purpose was "SKo Dora" created ? be good to know.

cheer PAUL

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#34

Post by SIS 5 » 07 Jul 2020, 00:49

Hi Paul,

the Sonderkommando "Dora" was a group that was part of the German foreign defense, Abteilung Fremde Heere West (3. Abteilung) (Section Foreign Armies West). It had no cross-connections to the DAK (German Africa Korps), nor was it under its command.
The "Sonderkommando Dora" had purely scientific tasks, such as cartography, hydrology, meteorology, geology and other areas of importance for the war effort. There were 13 scientists, some of whom were classified as special leaders and some as military ranks. They were accompanied by a 60-strong protection force.It was a group of scientists that was supposed to map the south of Libya because the maps of the Italians were misleadingly wrong.
Here the white shield and scorpion unit badge (source: http://www.deutsches-afrika-korps.de/).

Best regards

Bert
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scorpion Dora.png
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Re: Grille Normady 44

#35

Post by spannermann » 07 Jul 2020, 09:06

Hi Bert,
Many thanks for your information, i had no idea that they were just scientific, always assumed they were a combat unit on special duties, and they seemed to be better equipped than many other regular units.

cheers PAUL

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#36

Post by yantaylor » 07 Jul 2020, 12:02

Here are a couple of Grilles located in Carrceto Italy 1944, as you can see, they are working in pairs with a Sd. Kfz 251 acting as either a command vehicle or ammo carrier.
Did they always work in twos with a radio vehicle adjusting the fall of shot?

Image

Ian
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grille 44.jpg

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#37

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 07 Jul 2020, 13:25

Bert, those photographs are of Dora's Steyr and don't really fall within my definition of them being with DAK in Libya.
Alan

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#38

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 07 Jul 2020, 13:28

yantaylor wrote:
07 Jul 2020, 12:02
Here are a couple of Grilles located in Carrceto Italy 1944, as you can see, they are working in pairs with a Sd. Kfz 251 acting as either a command vehicle or ammo carrier.
Did they always work in twos with a radio vehicle adjusting the fall of shot?

Image

Ian
Ian, have you forgotten you have the link to Christoph's site ? Each Platoon (Zug) had a 251/1 and a pair of Grille.

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1120a1apr44.htm
Alan

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#39

Post by yantaylor » 07 Jul 2020, 21:55

Hi Alan, no I was going to look tonight as my job means that I work early mornings and evenings, but thanks for finding that for me, it is excellent info.

Ian

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#40

Post by SIS 5 » 07 Jul 2020, 23:55

Hi Alan,

excuse me, please, You are right, the Steyrs on the photographs were of Sonderkommando Dora. Has been any Steyr 1500 of the DAK in Africa? I cannot remember, that I´ve seen a pic with this vehicle (except Dora).

Best regards

Bert

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#41

Post by Yoozername » 08 Jul 2020, 00:19

The vehicles had good reports. Some issues regarding ammunition resupply vehicles, communications, etc.. When were the vehicles actually named 'Grille'? Is this official or a 'nick-name'? Interesting that the load out would contain as many HL ammunition.

Report written by the Hptm. Strohfahrt on 23.6.1943 on the experiences carried out by the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 67 (26. Pz.Div.) With their first sIG 33/1 (Sf.) During the instruction period.

http://www.panzer-elmito.org/artilleria ... ndice.html

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#42

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 08 Jul 2020, 11:25

We use many names today that the Germans probably didn't use and I for one don't know whether the Germans called these Grille or Bison or nether for that matter. Juyst as long as we all know what vehicle we're talking about and also that we don't call the Flakpanzer 38(t)-with or without the (t) - a Gepard.
Alan

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#43

Post by Yoozername » 08 Jul 2020, 20:56

Here is a German document bringing up the confusion regarding names of AFV and it does mention "Grille"

Extract from a document written by Albert Speer in which the topics discussed during a meeting with the Führer on May 4, 1943 are collected. In the translated extract Karl Saur (Secretary of State for the Ministry of Armament and War Production) Hitler is commissioned to present a proposal with 'clear' names and agreed between the different departments for the different armored vehicles.

http://www.panzer-elmito.org/panzertrup ... 504_D.html
Saur :

Because denominations like 'Wespe', 'Grille', etc. they are unclear and lead to continual confusion the Fuehrer proposes that I present you with a list with the aim of definitively specifying clear names for all tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns, assault howitzers, assault tanks and self-propelled platforms. The list must be previously agreed between the different departments involved.

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Re: Grille Normady 44

#44

Post by Yoozername » 08 Jul 2020, 21:04

Another document says what names should be used, and that certain ones are suppressed. Specifically...

http://www.panzer-elmito.org/panzertrup ... 201_E.html
The most common names for heavy artillery such as Bruno, Siegfried, etc. remain. The denomination of arms or equipment with special names such as Wespe, Grille, Hummel, Maultier will soon cease to be used.
So it appears that the name 'Grille' was used, but was not liked by the powers that be!

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