► Photothread: Schwere Panzerspähwagen (SdKfz 231) 6 rad

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TadPortly
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► Photothread: Schwere Panzerspähwagen (SdKfz 231) 6 rad

Post by TadPortly » 27 Apr 2006 11:46

Does anyone know what happened to these vehicles after they were withdrawn from frontline service? I find it hard to believe they were simply scrapped especially given the amount of obsolescent equipment that was used in quiet sectors or to police occupied countries. Does anyone have any pictures of them in use later in the war?

Aldert Louwe
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Post by Aldert Louwe » 27 Apr 2006 12:32

I don´t know for sure but they might have been very usefull in the battle with partizans in russia and yugoslavia?
I would like to know also......

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Jones
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Post by Jones » 28 Apr 2006 18:00

I would agree with Aldert. The fight versus partizans kept growing bigger in the occupied territories and for this job the SdKfz was perfect. Allthough i am not 100% sure but thats is my 50 cents.

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ghasp!
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Post by ghasp! » 28 Apr 2006 19:31

I've been researching these vehicles for some years as I'm hoping to start building a replica vehicle, the donor chassis should be arriving next month! Unfortunately there's very little information on them after 1940. The accepted idea is that they were withdrawn to training establishments or used for internal security duties, however a few pieces of evidence have surfaced recently to suggest some combat duties later in the war.

One was definitely used to defend a railway (I believe in Poland), being fitted with extra wheels to keep it on the rails.

There seems to have been a unit active on the Eastern front until at least 1942, this information came from a person who posted to this site last year, whose relative crewed the vehicles.

There's a photo of a 232 6-rad in the book German Heavy Reconnaissance Vehcles, by Hort Scheibert. This photo is captioned as being taken during the French Campaign, which I assume means 1940. However, it appears to have the late war three colour camo plus a low visibility cross on it. I can't see how that paint scheme could fit in with that date so perhaps it actually dates to the 1944 French campaign?

There's also a mention of German six-wheeler armoured cars coming into contact with men of the 6th Airborne Division, specifically the Armoured Reconnaissance Squadron, on the afternoon of D-day itself. These vehicles may have been used locally for anti-partisan duties, but I haven't found any evidence for them. On the other hand they may have been part of the 21st Panzer division's Kampf group Von Luck which was documented as being in action against the airborne units at the time recorded by this battle report. This group consisted of panzer grenadiers, the Reconnaissance battalian with all the armoured cars, some assualt guns and some 88's. Now, it's well documented that while being rebuilt in the area the 21st panzer division was given early models of panzer III and IV which had been withdrawn from training units to make up the numbers. There's no mention of using older armoured cars from training schools, but it is a possibility worth investigating. The problem is people don't seem to be that interested in the armoured cars, the tanks are much more sexy I suppose! Often, even in wartime sources, they're only refered to has heavy or light, without going into any more detail.
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Jones
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Post by Jones » 28 Apr 2006 22:40

Well the armoured cars were motsly used as reconnaisance vehicles and if they were used in offensives they would have a more defensive role.

Mostly the armoured cars just reported the enemy movements and then moved on towards their objective. They never really went in to heavier fightings unless they were forced into these, this could be the reason that these cars are so "nonhot" compared with the tanks.

MjrMayhem
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Recce aint no fun either

Post by MjrMayhem » 29 Apr 2006 03:16

They earned there medals, alright. Its not always easy getting back to the main force, especially w/o air power on your side. Give these boys some credit.

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Jones
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Agreed.

Post by Jones » 29 Apr 2006 06:49

I agree with you mate:) reconnaisance is a very dangerous job especially when operating behind enemy lines. The actual fights were mostly done by the tanks cannons and infantry while the recon vehicles waited in the background for their moveorder. But ofcourse the reconnaisance people must have had their adrenalin pumping while driving around on the enemy side of the front.

TadPortly
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Post by TadPortly » 29 Apr 2006 20:37

Thank you ghasp! for your post - very much appreciated. I have only come across one picture where a 231 appears to be in camouflage (see below, sorry no record of source). However, there was no information with the picture, so I have no idea of date.
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TadPortly
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Post by TadPortly » 29 Apr 2006 21:39

Look what just popped up on ebay!
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Aldert Louwe
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Post by Aldert Louwe » 01 May 2006 08:14

Ghasp!
"This photo is captioned as being taken during the French Campaign, which I assume means 1940. However, it appears to have the late war three colour camo plus a low visibility cross on it. I can't see how that paint scheme could fit in with that date so perhaps it actually dates to the 1944 French campaign?"

This French Campaign could be the campaign to capture the south of France in 1943 after the Allied landings in North Africa.

jmehner
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Post by jmehner » 01 May 2006 11:59

Well,

it could be either the old three-colour Reichswehr scheme in which some SdKfz 231/232s were painted or it could be the two-colour scheme in effect for the 1940 campaign in the West, with some dirt/dust thrown in- vehicles in the West were not uniformly dunkelgrau, as has been stated for years, and the recent progress in printing and photographic processing made it possible to actually see the two-colour scheme on a lot of vehicles that were previously thought to be dunkelgrau overall.

Cheers,

JM

Sab
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ebay photos of Spähwagen

Post by Sab » 02 May 2006 11:45

Hi
Can I just let everyone know, that the Panzerspähwagen photos which TadPortly found on the 29.4.06 for sale on ebay, are actually mine and I have the originals. I find it an absolute disgrace that there is someone out there actually taking my photos and sells the copies.
I don't mind them being open for viewing to anyone who is interested and I have given out FOR FREE many emailed copies, but selling them!!!! The money is not the issue, it's the pricipal!
Sabine

TadPortly
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Post by TadPortly » 02 May 2006 12:05

Sab

If I had known they were illicitly for sale I would not have posted them up. I tried at the weekend to relocate them after I was contacted by ghasp!, but unfortunately I could not find them (I trawl through several ebay sites from several countries and don't usually keep auction details). If I do find them I will let you know as soon as possible.

Turning back to the actual photos, do you have any details on the year/location?

Sab
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Panzerspähwagen

Post by Sab » 02 May 2006 12:26

Hi
Thanks, Tad. I posted the photos on the 21.10.05 under Panzer and other vehicles -> Vehicle Identification request, page 13....so there!
I know from my uncles diary etc., that he was in Minsk, Russia in 1943 and made his Panzerspähwagen licence there in October 1943. I also know he was waiting there for his next command. The next thing I know only that he was fatally wounded in Russia late 1944. He was all the time in russia. Also later spähwagen photos I have were all taken in the snow. The white paint was camouflage.
Thanks
Sabine

TadPortly
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Post by TadPortly » 02 May 2006 12:30

were the later photos all of 6 RADs?

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