► Photothread: German and Beute Ford vehicles

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Bill Murray
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► Photothread: German and Beute Ford vehicles

Post by Bill Murray » 29 Jan 2007 23:28

As we have a lot of Ford fans and a lot of folks who do not know the Ford brand as used in WWII quite so well, I will start a new thread on German Ford vehicles.

This is not intended as an "expert" thread, but merely to show examples of the various Ford vehicles used by German forces in WWII. As such, I will not get very specific about models other than what I feel is the year of the vehicle and the possible source.

For now, photo #1 is of the prototypical 3 ton Ford of 1939 vintage with body by Papler as specified by the German forces.

Note that it has the American style cab but with a solid windscreen as opposed to the split or two piece windscreen used in American vehicles.
Bill
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Post by Bill Murray » 29 Jan 2007 23:35

Second is the open cab model I mentioned on another thread.
This cab/ body could be found on models from about 1935 and to the end of the war.
Here, we have a flat two piece windscreen, different from the factory cab one piece windscreen. I have always assumed that this was a variant that was ordered by the German forces as it does not seem to have a civilian equivelant.
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Post by Bill Murray » 29 Jan 2007 23:41

Just to confuse the issue, I found in my collection, a German Ford truck brochure from the late 1930s that shows some bodies and cabs that are civilian production that resemble the "economy" cabs that I have always thought were only to be found in the Low Countries and in Scandinavia.
I guess this proves that trying to research everything about a given type of vehicle is a never ending detective work.
I will try to post some photos of beute vehicles on the Ford chassis over the next days.
Bill
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Sander D
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Post by Sander D » 29 Jan 2007 23:49

Hi Bill,nice pictures

I posted this picture some time a go and was ID as a beute Ford V8-51 with a very unusual body.

Could it be a german one,it has some reasembling with the third picture that you posted .

Sander

Long Expired E-bay picture

Image

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Post by Bill Murray » 30 Jan 2007 00:04

Hi Sander:
Interesting photo. A 1935 US model type with the odd large cab.
As a guess, it seems to have a civilian German registration plate so it could be an impressed vehicle. I have some more scans I need to do of coachbuilt German Fords that have similar rather odd cab configurations I hope to post soon.
I am almost afraid to go further with this subject as it seems to be getting ever more complicated.
I have photos in my files of all kinds of German and Beute Fords but it is getting harder and harder to sort out what came from where. Maybe I will just post the lot over time and let the readers decide.
Bill

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FRANCY RITTER
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Post by FRANCY RITTER » 30 Jan 2007 10:54

Hello!! :)
Nice thread Bill.,truck in the mud , Ford G917T k on an Russian "road" .

From exp eaby.auction
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Post by Bill Murray » 30 Jan 2007 23:41

Hi Francy:
Well, given that it has a one piece windscreen and the shovel attached to the side of the hood/bonnet, I would guess that this is a genuine German Ford, not a beute as it also seems to have a standard cab and a standard body.
Bill

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Post by FRANCY RITTER » 31 Jan 2007 08:09

Ooops.. sorry Bill.. :cry: :)

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Sander D
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Post by Sander D » 31 Jan 2007 19:20

Hi Bill

Thanks for the info.

I noticed some differance in engine grils,see picture .
Is it posible to tell in what county it was made,it obvious not a german one.
the picture was taken somewhere on the east ( a long expired E-bay picture )

Image


2 German fords struggeling in the russian mud ( a long expired E-bay picture ) .

Image

And not a truck, but a ford omnibus ( a long expired E-bay picture ) .

Image

Sander

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Post by Bill Murray » 31 Jan 2007 22:46

Hi Sander:
Your first photo is, I agree, probably not of German origin. From where it came I do not know but it seems to have the standard US style cab and windscreen and thus could have been exported as a chassis/cab to any number of European countries.

Your second photo seems to be trucks of German origin but by my research, with civilian bodies as opposed to military style bodies. Possibly impressed.

The bus is rather typical of a civilian German bus in my opinon.
I will post here three more photos of civilian German Fords to show the difficulty in IDing every photo we see with confidence.
Bill
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Post by Bill Murray » 31 Jan 2007 23:06

As a further comment to German factory built Fords, please understand I am an enthusiastic amateur, not an expert.

It would seem from my various reference books that Ford of Germany did not participate in every model year change that Ford US offered. From what I can tell, the V8-51 model, a 1935 US style, was produced perhaps long after the model year was over.

I have not seen a German Ford truck with the 1936 or 1937 styling.

The front grille on the US 1938 models changed again and was continued in 1939 with minor changes. From what I can determine, Ford of Germany picked up this style in 1939 and may have continued it for some time after.

Finally, the 1940 US style grille, which was also carried on to 1941 with minor modifications, was picked up by Ford of Germany as the V-3000S in 1941.

As I said earlier, this is a confusing picture puzzle we are trying to sort out and I will just continue to post photos with the best effort at ID that I can.
Bill

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Post by Panzermacher » 31 Jan 2007 23:28

Bill
Do you know what "year type" of Ford model this is & if they were built in this fasion or captured in this type?
just for confusion later I'll post an image of a Marmon-Harrington which has a strikingly similar bonnet/grill, but I don't know if it was ever used in service by anyone, perhaps as lend-lease to the USSR?
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Post by Bill Murray » 01 Feb 2007 02:02

Panzermacher:

Interesting photo.

Based on what I have as reference materiel, it has the thicker stripe of chrome over the top of the grille and the thicker side mouldings going back from front to rear of the grille denoting a 1941 model. On the other hand, it does not have the Ford emblem midway along the horizontal louvres on the hood/bonnet which is typical of 1941 models.

As I see it, your photo is of a RHD vehicle with the split windscreen which may mean it is from Australia or New Zealand. It does not appear to be a British or Canadian variant.
Bill

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Post by Panzermacher » 01 Feb 2007 18:48

Thanks Bill
To your knowledge, was this type ever in production for the Wehrmacht or were examples captured & used by them?
I'm asking because a few German Reenactor Units are using these as "German built Fords".

below is the Marmon-Harrington, you'll also notice the "Trim" on the door/window line is the same for both the Ford & MH, seems perhaps the Marmon-Harrington company was building or using Ford type cabs or license building the entire truck??
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Sander D
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Post by Sander D » 01 Feb 2007 19:09

Here's a other one Bill,

Picture was taken some where in France i believe (the surroundings of Duinkerken).

I believe it's a Englisch imported fordson E817T 1938.
Can't tell you for sure if it's a standard army truck or a rebuild one,i do think it's the last option.
There is some differance in collours of the kofferbau and the cabin.

Regards

Sander

And Bill i believe most of the people on this forum are enthusiastic amateurs.

I almost forgot the picture :

Image

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