Schlittengeräte

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 22 Mar 2007 21:42

Thanks

Hoping to get some more answers though

Some good quality photos of older Russian aerosans:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... hp?t=89982

On the attachment a Wehrmacht early NKL-6 at Lake Ilmen near Novgorod

Best regards
Kees
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Keessmit
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Armoured NKL-26

Post by Keessmit » 31 Mar 2007 23:43

Hi,
Could anybody identify the guys with this Russia aerosan? Russian? Finnish? German?
photos are expired e-bay ones
Kees
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Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 31 Mar 2007 23:46

Second photo
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Phil Bishop
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Post by Phil Bishop » 01 Apr 2007 21:39

Hard to tell...but if I had to make a choice I'd go for Russian....to scruffy for Germans and one guy is wearing felt boots, and the leather helmet another has on looks russian too.

Keessmit
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German Aerosans in WW1

Post by Keessmit » 09 Apr 2007 17:49

Just found this info
Armed aerosans were put into service on the Eastern front in small numbers in 1915 by the German Imperial Motorboat Corps.
http://www.battlefield1918.de/forum/thread/2862
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Keessmit
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Finnish built aerosans

Post by Keessmit » 14 Apr 2007 18:08

In 1930, on his last trip to Greenland, the German interdisciplinary scientist and meteorologist Alfred Wegener (famous for his theory of continental drift.) due to disastrous weather, went missing. His body was found on May 12, 1931.
Cause was a chain of disastrous weather, the upcoming winter, not continuing personnel, logistic problems and and failing aerosans.
Wegener used four-glider aerosans built by the Helsinki based VL company (Valtion Lentokonetehdas / Finnish State Aircraft Factory) They were transport-aerosans with a driver cabin and an open top goods department. Engines were 110 hp Siemens radial ones.
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Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 14 Apr 2007 18:54

The reason to post the photo of Wegener's sledge is that it shines a different light on some of the discussions on WW2 aerosans used by the Finns. Unlike Hinrichsen in Waffen-Arsenal Band 179 page 46 top photo (attachment), I think that the featured aerosan is a Finnish built VL and not a modified NKL 16/41.
This aerosan with the von Rosen Cross seems to be a transportmodel, like the Greenland expedtion one, Finnish soldiers standing in the open goods compartment.
Even the armored aerosan (Attachment) , posted earlier by Martti Kujanssuu on http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=15 might well be a VL when one compares the glider suspension.
Best regards
Kees
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Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 14 Apr 2007 18:56

Armored Finnish Sledge. Comment welcomed.
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Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 22 Apr 2007 16:36

Here two pix of a Trippel amphibian aerosan. Ordered by the Luftwaffe and built in 1943, it could roll, glide and swim!
Does anybody have any details?
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Sean N
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Re:

Post by Sean N » 03 Apr 2010 20:42

Keessmit wrote: A) Several crosses are used on the aerosans.
2) On the top photo of this page we have a NKL-6 small cross. Is this a Red Cross Aerosan?
Apparently the Soviet Army used Aerosans fitted as medical evacuation units, so I assume it's one of these, though apparently also they were sometimes armed with the DT 7.62 mg! Some of these are said to have been captured by the Finns.
Keessmit wrote: B) There seems to be two different versions of the NKL-6
1) The one with two headlamps positioned on ether side of the A-pillar and a door close to the driver
2) The one with a centrally mounted headlight and a door more backwards.
I guess it's possible there were early and late variations, and since they were built by many different workshops perhaps detailed design varied according to that workshop's capacities and skills - and perhaps whim.
Keessmit wrote: D) What is the difference between the NKL-16 41 and the NKL- 16 42. Is it that the the Typ 41 had a nose similar to the NKL-6 and the Typ 42 a flat nose similar in shape to the NKL-26?
According to the CMV article the type 42 (1942 variant) was enlarged over the type 41 to give a larger hull (longer and 4" wider) to give the driver more steering room, three exits for crew access, and to move the fuel tank inside the hull and protect it. The type 41 photos I've seen have a bulbous full width nose which I assume is actually the fuel tank; it looks like one. If that's being moved inside and you're trying to increase interior space the obvious thing would be extend the hull at the front and put a flat front on it.

Keessmit
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Re: Schlittengeräte

Post by Keessmit » 03 Apr 2010 22:02

Thanks
With time passing by, some of questions seems dated.
It has been quite difficult to understand which Soviet factories built the aerosans.
I have ordered a copy of http://www.great-cars.co.uk/classic-mil ... ption.html and will come back to you.
Best regards
Kees

Sean N
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Re: Schlittengeräte

Post by Sean N » 04 Apr 2010 08:32

I had the impression that they were built by a number of different factories, large and small. including GAZ. The CMV article refers to variants built by GAZ and its subsidiary plants, but also says that construction of the NKL-16 and 26 was farmed out to lots of workshops under control of the ministries which looked after farming, forestry and boatbuilding.

The article seems to tap into older information but also refers to new material from Russian Ministry of Defence archives. It's difficult for me to know exactly how much of it is new.

Keessmit
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Re: Schlittengeräte

Post by Keessmit » 04 Apr 2010 11:58

Hi,
I thought that GAZonly built the smaller open two seater sledges.
Anyway, I wait for the article.
I am particulary interested in the Beute-use of Russian propellersledges and if the Germans developed their own one models. Most well known German sledge is the Tatra V855, but this model seems to have a wrong power-weight ratio. I know the Bücker aircraft manufacturer was asked to develop a propellersledge as well and German engineers tested Russian propellersledges in Lithuania, but info is hard to get.
Kees
Attachment shows a German NKL-16 Beute sledge
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larth
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Re: Schlittengeräte

Post by larth » 04 Apr 2010 12:44

Hi Kees,

the picture name says "SledgeNKL16City" - should it not be the OSGA-6 or NKL-6?

Thanks for the link to the CMV magazine - one copy ordered.
best regards,
Lars

Keessmit
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Re: Schlittengeräte

Post by Keessmit » 04 Apr 2010 13:37

Yes, its a NKL-6, not NKL-16. The first one had three gliders, the later ones four.

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