Marder III SdKfz 138

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alchemy
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Location: Spain

Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by alchemy » 21 Dec 2008 17:32

Somebody has any information about the Model of the 6 Marder III shipped to 9 PzD in October 1943? I tend to considered that they will be "M" but in this case seems to me an small amount, maybe substitution fot those lost in Kursk? (Zetterling stated 16 Marder in 9 PzD at the beginning of the ofensive that I supose that will be H)

Another related point, where I can find the allocation of the different versions of Marder?

Thank you very much in advance.

Javier

Martin Block
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Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by Martin Block » 25 Dec 2008 18:11

Sorry Javier, I don't know where your information comes from, but if I don't misread the allocation files for Pak-Sfl. kept by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. there was no delivery of Sd.Kfz. 138 to the 9. Pz.Div. during October 1943. Other records show that the division did not have any Sd.Kfz. 138, neither Ausf. H nor Ausf. M, at all until at least 20.12.1943 after which date 6 Sd.Kfz. 138 Ausf. M were allocated from a batch of 'Nachschub Ost' shipments during Nov/Dec 1943. Throughout the year 1943 Pz.Jg.Abt. 50 reported only Marder II (7,5 cm) (Sd.Kfz. 131) in its inventory.

If you are interested in Marder allocations then you can find them in various issues of the 'Nuts & Bolts' and 'Panzer Tracts' series covering the 'Marder' series. Another option - at least regarding Sd.Kfz. 138 after May 1943 - is this link: http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=8113

Martin Block

alchemy
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Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by alchemy » 25 Dec 2008 23:26

Thank you Martin for your answer.

My story about the Marders of the 9 PzD start when I saw in Zetterling's book "Kursk" that 50 PzJag Abt had 2 companies with 16 Marders at the begining of Kursk. I suppose, wrongly, that they should be Marder III "H". To add some extra confusion, I had a couple of Gliederung from Sep-Nov 1943 where does not appear any Marder in the 50 Panzerjager, only a towed company. I have not any detailed information about 9 PzD in late 1942, early 1943.

The delivery of the 6 Marders SdKfz 138, comes from Nevenkin's "Fire Brigades" (pag 281) a delivery in October 1943 of 6 of these AFVs. Not other details are provided. Maybe is a typo error.

As again, in Zetterling's book "Normandie" appear 9 Marders (can be a mixed company of Marder II & III?), but not details about the model are given.

I've just order the "Panzer tracts 7-2", as the Nuts and bolts seems to be unavailable (at least in Amazon).

Regards
Javier Mtnez. Casares
Last edited by alchemy on 26 Dec 2008 11:32, edited 1 time in total.

Martin Block
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Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by Martin Block » 26 Dec 2008 01:23

No problem Javier.

I'm a bit confused that those Gliederungen of yours do only show Pz.Jg.Abt. 50 having a towed company because copies of divisional reports I have do only show a self-propelled company!

That October 1943 delivery mentioned in "Fire Brigades" is indeed incorrect and must be a typo or misinterpretation.

9. Pz.Div. did not bring back any of its own Marder II and III from Russia when it was sent to France for refit in early 1944. Most had been lost and the few remaining ones were handed over to other units when the division left. The 'new' equipment of Pz.Jg.Abt. 50 came with the incorporation of Res.Pz.Jg.Abt. 5 of the 155. Res.Pz.Div. during May 1944. At the beginning of 1944 this unit had a mix of 4 Marder II (7,5 cm), 2 Marder II (7,62), 2 Marder III (7,62) and 5 StuG III in its inventory. Unfortunately reports of 9. Pz.Div. dated 1.6.1944 and thereafter do not further specify the types of Marder with Pz.Jg.Abt. 50, they just show 9 s.Pak-Sfl. and 5 StuG. So in theory - if except for adding 1 Marder of unknown type no other changes I failed to notice had been ordered - all 3 above Marder types could have been present. But that's only speculation on my part so far.

Martin Block

alchemy
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Location: Spain

Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by alchemy » 26 Dec 2008 11:51

Martin Block wrote:I'm a bit confused that those Gliederungen of yours do only show Pz.Jg.Abt. 50 having a towed company because copies of divisional reports I have do only show a self-propelled company!


You are right, Martin, it is a self propelled company (I think that it is the moment to get new glasses for me), I don't know how I miss the tactical sign of a SP compared to a towed one.

Thank you very much again.

Javier

Kelvin
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Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by Kelvin » 08 Sep 2019 08:59

Martin Block wrote:
25 Dec 2008 18:11
Sorry Javier, I don't know where your information comes from, but if I don't misread the allocation files for Pak-Sfl. kept by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. there was no delivery of Sd.Kfz. 138 to the 9. Pz.Div. during October 1943. Other records show that the division did not have any Sd.Kfz. 138, neither Ausf. H nor Ausf. M, at all until at least 20.12.1943 after which date 6 Sd.Kfz. 138 Ausf. M were allocated from a batch of 'Nachschub Ost' shipments during Nov/Dec 1943. Throughout the year 1943 Pz.Jg.Abt. 50 reported only Marder II (7,5 cm) (Sd.Kfz. 131) in its inventory.

If you are interested in Marder allocations then you can find them in various issues of the 'Nuts & Bolts' and 'Panzer Tracts' series covering the 'Marder' series. Another option - at least regarding Sd.Kfz. 138 after May 1943 - is this link: http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=8113

Martin Block
Hi, everyone, as Panzer-Archive Forum was closed, any alternative to site concerning Marder III sdkfz 138 deliveries ? Thank

Denniss
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Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by Denniss » 08 Sep 2019 09:22


Kelvin
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Posts: 2468
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: Marder III SdKfz 138

Post by Kelvin » 09 Sep 2019 04:27

Denniss wrote:
08 Sep 2019 09:22
Maybe this helps:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140807233 ... php?t=8113
Hi, Denniss, thank so much for your link, very helpful. :D

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