Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

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yantaylor
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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#16

Post by yantaylor » 06 Nov 2017, 16:21

In the link posted by Martin, one poster said that they didn't have any production totals for the last two months of the war, but would the German's still have the means to produce these half-tracks in March and April 1945?
You are only talking about weeks here before the war had ended and surly if they could still churn our AFVs, then it would be for more immediate vehicles, like Tanks.

Can anyone help me with data on the SdKfz 251/9
Was there two versions of this vehicle?
How many were actually built
How thick was the armour which protected the main gun

Yan.
Last edited by yantaylor on 06 Nov 2017, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#17

Post by yantaylor » 06 Nov 2017, 16:26

Another half-track which was used to mount a anti-tank gun was the rare Sd.kfz 10 Pak 38.

I think that data for this vehicle is pretty thin on the ground and I don't have any figures for its production.
I wonder if this conversion was done in the field and that is why so little is known about it.

Yan.


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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#18

Post by Kelvin » 07 Nov 2017, 10:01

Hi, Yan, you forget sdkfz.6 5-ton half track with 7.62 cm Pak , so called Diana

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#19

Post by yantaylor » 07 Nov 2017, 13:12

Thanks Kelvin, I know of the vehicle and their use in North Africa with the 605th Panzerjäger Abteilung .

The Africa Korps seemed to attract a few vehicles like that, they also received over twenty 15cm sfh13 Lorraine Schlepper's.

Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#20

Post by SIS 5 » 07 Nov 2017, 15:47

Hi Yan,

sorry, I can give You an answer only to Your first question: yes, there were two versions of the Sd.Kfz. 251/9.
On the first version the front plate above the commander´s seat was cut out for the 75mm gun, on the second version a new overhead mount was mounted on the driver´s roof and the sides of the crew compartment were raised to provide increased protection for the crew.
Source of pic 1 and 3 with the information: squadron/signal publication Armor Series No. 21 "SdKfz 251 in action" by Charles Kliment.
Source of pic 2 and 4: Waffen-Arsenal Band 64: "Schützenpanzerwagen 2. Band" by Horst Scheibert.

Regards

Bert
Attachments
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251-9 1.png (190.23 KiB) Viewed 1470 times
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251-9 4.png (273.51 KiB) Viewed 1470 times
251-9  2.png
251-9 2.png (214.2 KiB) Viewed 1470 times
251-9  3.png
251-9 3.png (222.9 KiB) Viewed 1470 times

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#21

Post by yantaylor » 07 Nov 2017, 21:48

Thank you Bert.
Do you know the totals of the two variants?
And what was the date when the new gun mount variant was first produced?

Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#22

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 07 Nov 2017, 22:42

Yan, the second mount was introduced June 1944 on the SdKfz 234/3, it was identical on three vehicles, the SdKfz 234/3, SdKfz 250/8 and the SdKfz 251/9 so the two halftracks were probably the same date.
Alan

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#23

Post by Kelvin » 08 Nov 2017, 10:01

yantaylor wrote:Thanks Kelvin, I know of the vehicle and their use in North Africa with the 605th Panzerjäger Abteilung .

The Africa Korps seemed to attract a few vehicles like that, they also received over twenty 15cm sfh13 Lorraine Schlepper's.

Yan.
Hello, Yan, German planned to ship 30 this weapon to Afrikakorps : 12 each to 15 and 21. Pz div and six to 90. Leichte Afrika division, but only 23 arrived.

Do you know any website have data on reinforcement to Afrikakorps prior to Gazala campaign ? AFAIK, they got 12 x Pz II sIG 33 gun vehicles and 9 x Diana SP Pak vehicles, any thing new they received from homeland before May 1942 ? Thank

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#24

Post by yantaylor » 08 Nov 2017, 12:06

Alanmccoubrey wrote:Yan, the second mount was introduced June 1944 on the SdKfz 234/3, it was identical on three vehicles, the SdKfz 234/3, SdKfz 250/8 and the SdKfz 251/9 so the two halftracks were probably the same date.
Thanks Alan.
Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#25

Post by yantaylor » 08 Nov 2017, 12:30

Hi Kelvin.
If we stick to self-propelled guns, then between November 1941 and May 1942, the Afrika Korps received the following;

40 x Pz.Kpfw. I, 4.7cm PaK Auf (t)
2 x Panzerselbstfahrlafette II
9 x Sd.Kfz. 6/3, 7.62cm FK (r) “Diana”
27 x Marder III, 7.62cm Pak 36

Sonderverband managed to get their hands on three StuG III Ausf Cs in early 1942.

I hope this helps.
Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#26

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 09 Nov 2017, 14:46

Yan, you're not quite right with "Sonderverband managed to get their hands on three StuG III Ausf Cs in early 1942". Six StuG were shipped to the unit but three of them were sunk en route.
Alan

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#27

Post by yantaylor » 09 Nov 2017, 17:45

True Alan, but I meant the three that made it. You do see quite a few photos of long barreled StuG IIIs in Tunisia, I don't know what mark these are but some have Fallschirmjaegers riding on their hull.

Some of the other rare vehicles to make it out to North Africa are;
Sd.Kfz 254 [Beobachtungskraftwagen]
Land-Wasser-Schlepper
Pz.Kpfw III Ausf M/N [M chassis and N turret]

Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#28

Post by Kelvin » 11 Nov 2017, 00:24

yantaylor wrote:Hi Kelvin.
If we stick to self-propelled guns, then between November 1941 and May 1942, the Afrika Korps received the following;

40 x Pz.Kpfw. I, 4.7cm PaK Auf (t)
2 x Panzerselbstfahrlafette II
9 x Sd.Kfz. 6/3, 7.62cm FK (r) “Diana”
27 x Marder III, 7.62cm Pak 36

Sonderverband managed to get their hands on three StuG III Ausf Cs in early 1942.

I hope this helps.
Yan.
Hello, Yan, thank for that, very helpful and very much appreciated. I would like to ask if the number of Panzerjager I deliveries to North Africa reached at 67 altogether if we included 27 that vehicles arrived in North Africa in early 1941 ? Thank.

And which unit had Marder III 7.62 as 605.PzJg abteilung had both mixture of Pzjg I and Diana in May 1942 ? Thank

Kelvin

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#29

Post by yantaylor » 11 Nov 2017, 12:21

I am not an expert on this Kelvin, but I will give it my best shot.
I have read that the Afrika Korps received sixty six Marder IIIs in 1942 and I think that all of these were armed with the 7.6cm PaK 36.
The two units who were equipped with these vehicles were these;
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 33 [15th Panzer]
Panzerjäger-Abteilung 39 [21st Panzer]

Yes you are correct with the totals of Pz.Kpfw. I, 4.7cm in 1941, the Panzerjäger-Abteilung 605 took four Panzer Is and 27 Pz.Kpfw. I, 4.7cm PaK Auf (t) to Africa, but I don't have any data on others sent.

I hope this helps.
Yan.

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Re: Sd.Kfz.251/22 (7.5cm PaK 40) info???

#30

Post by SIS 5 » 11 Nov 2017, 12:55

Hi Kelvin,

maybe it is interesting for You: two outlines of the strength of Panzerjägerabteilung 33 (1st company with 16 Marder IIIs) and 605 (Sfl) with Pz.Kpfw. I with 4.7cm PaK (t) and Sd.Kfz. 6/3 with 7.62cm FK (r) “Diana” (source: "Rommels Afrika Korps" by Pier Paolo Battistelli.

Regards

Bert
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