German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 04 Jan 2014 16:00

Hello to all :D; a result of a remark of GregSingh here http://forum.axishistory.com/posting.ph ... #pr1843530, a little query here.................

German marking signs in Poland 1939....

How fast the Germans crews changed the white cross out of their tanks/light armored vehicles? Seen the picture below (tank column from the 4. Le Div), the tank in the foreground has a different type of mark however it seems to me the tanks in the background are carrying painted the white marks. The picture was taken at Slomka on Sep 04, 1939.

Source: on the picture.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 05 Jan 2014 23:31

Hello to all :D; little more.................

German marking signs in Poland 1939....

Is it 1939?

Source: http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-Foto-Wehrma ... 51b5278704

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Larry Hayward
Member
Posts: 401
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 22:27
Location: Living in Great Britain

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Larry Hayward » 06 Jan 2014 00:05

Interesting question. I don't know the answer but as a starting point it might be the case that before WW2 the Germans used the familiar black cross and that the white cross was introduced specially for Poland? Therefore some tanks seen in the photos were using the 'old style' cross, which subsequently got re-introduced for the attack on France and the Low Countries.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 06 Jan 2014 13:38

Hello to all :D; thanks for your answer Larry Hayward :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Larry Hayward
Member
Posts: 401
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 22:27
Location: Living in Great Britain

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Larry Hayward » 11 Jan 2014 17:37

Steve Zaloga in his book Blitzkrieg by Arms & Armour Press 1980 says that the white cross was over painted quite early on in the Polish Campaign either with yellow or even black.

But prior to WW2 German tanks did not carry cross markings and the later black & white cross was not introduced till early in 1940, so my theory is wrong!

It could be that the photos above were taken in Poland but during the occupation rather than the campaign in 1939

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 11 Jan 2014 18:34

Hello to all :D; thanks for your comments Larry :wink:, yes could be prior to Barbarossa.........Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 12 Jan 2014 17:45

Hello to all :D; little more.................

German marking signs in Poland 1939....

Source: on the picture.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

GregSingh
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 01:11
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by GregSingh » 12 Jan 2014 23:53

Still, the first picture is puzzling.
It could be wrongly labelled, but then you have two tanks with different markings and cross which shouldn't be there until 1940 on one of them...
I think it is worth investigating. Am I mistaken or those 1940 balken crosses are mostly on 4.lei Div tanks in September 1939 as far as photographic evidence goes?
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

Larry Hayward
Member
Posts: 401
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 22:27
Location: Living in Great Britain

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Larry Hayward » 13 Jan 2014 00:43

Also you are relying on the person writing the caption to be correct - it might have been written months or years afterwards; I know as I have done this with my own personal photos

User avatar
Piotr Mikołajski
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: 14 Mar 2011 18:31
Location: Olsztyn, Poland / Allenstein, Ostpreußen

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 09 Sep 2014 07:39

Well known white crosses were introduced just before Polish campaign and crews started to cover / mask / overpaint them after first battles. Large crosses were excellent bulleyes for Polish artillery. Officially these crosses were abandoned in October 1939 so this is excellent timestamp for photos.
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 27 Nov 2015 23:02

Hello to all :D; something more, here goes a few photos from an album on an engineer unit during the campaign in Poland 1939.

Marking in the German tanks - Poland 1939.

Source: Fotoalbum 2.Pi.86 1.9.39 Pollen Einsatz Panzer Kampf Technik Vormarsch Spähwagen

Cheers. Raul M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Akira Takiguchi
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: 13 Nov 2002 06:27
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Akira Takiguchi » 28 Nov 2015 06:14

The national insignia of German Army first appeared during the 1938 annexation period on armored cars, which was open white Balkenkreuz. Shortly before Poland campaign, solid white (and non-white) cross was introduced.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 28 Nov 2015 13:33

Thank you very much Akira :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Akira Takiguchi
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: 13 Nov 2002 06:27
Location: Tokyo, JAPAN

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by Akira Takiguchi » 28 Nov 2015 14:59

The Balkenkreuz style shown on the first Pz II (turret center location) reminds me of annexation-style national insignia, not Westfeldzug style. The last Sd.Kfz.265, too. I'm not very sure about the Pz I and Pi86 album Pz II (side and rear of the turret). But who knows? I think this subject (pre-Poland Balkenkreuz) has not been digged enough so far.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German marking signs in Poland 1939.

Post by tigre » 05 Dec 2015 15:30

Hello to all :D; something more......................

Marking in the German tanks - Poland 1939.

Source: http://odkrywca.pl/panzer39-wraki-czesc ... 30647.html

Any idea about the unit? Cheers. Raul M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”