II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

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Miles Krogfus
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II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by Miles Krogfus » 13 May 2015 05:26

July 28, 1943 SS Korps report gives these complete losses July 5th-18th . . .
1SS: 1 Pz 1 B, 1 Pz III, 9 Pz IV (2 of these sent away for repair), 1 Tiger (sent away), 3 Strmgz, 3 SP Pak (1 sent away), 2 SdKfz 250, 11 SdKfz 251, 1 SdKfz 222 and 1 SdKfz 261.
2SS: 2 Pz III, 6 Pz IV, 1 Tiger, 2 Strmgz, 1 SdKfz 250.
3SS: 6 Pz III (1 in a repair center), 7 Pz IV, 1 Tiger, 1 Strmgz, 2 SP Pak, 9 SdKfz (2 of them sent away), 1 SdKfz 223, 1 SdKfz 263

II SS PzK ammo fired July 12, 1943 (late July 12 report):
1645 tons including these rounds:
1387 10 cm Gr19, 170 21 cm Mrs 18, 537 5 cm HE 38 Pak, 720 5 cm Pzgr 39 Pak, 913 5 cm HE KwK 39, 692 5 cm PzGr 39,155 7.5 cm HE Pak 40, 375 7.5 cm PzGr 39, 78 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/A/B, 5460 7.5 cm HE KwK 40, 3840 7.5 cm PzGr 39 Kwk, 1135 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/B
No 8.8 cm ammo as yet reported.

This same 12 July late report for material losses:
1 SS: 1 le.IG 18, 1 2 cm flak 38, 2 7.5 cm Pak 40 SP, 4 Flammenwerfer 41
2 SS: 1 SFH 18/1 SP barrel shattered, 1 mGrW 34
3 SS: 1 le.IG 18, 1 7.5 StuKan 40 L/48 barrel shattered

Yoozername
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Re: II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by Yoozername » 16 May 2015 18:23

Miles Krogfus wrote:
II SS PzK ammo fired July 12, 1943 (late July 12 report):
1645 tons including these rounds:
1387 10 cm Gr19,
170 21 cm Mrs 18,

537 5 cm HE 38 Pak, 720 5 cm Pzgr 39 Pak,
913 5 cm HE KwK 39, 692 5 cm PzGr 39,
155 7.5 cm HE Pak 40, 375 7.5 cm PzGr 39, 78 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/A/B,
5460 7.5 cm HE KwK 40, 3840 7.5 cm PzGr 39 Kwk, 1135 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/B
No 8.8 cm ammo as yet reported.
Great info.

7,5 cm certainly is the main player at that time. I suppose that all L24/L43 and L48 weapons might be included?

The Pak 40 is broken out separately, which is interesting. HEAT, produced in great numbers even for this weapon, is a minority type.

Turreted weapons, such as the 5,0 cm and 7,5 cm, have HE as a greater consumption than PzGr.

Miles Krogfus
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by Miles Krogfus » 17 May 2015 10:06

Yes, for the 75 ammo usage. I am very interested in ammo firing of different tanks and AT guns, and will post more such data in the future. The LAH CO's of 6th and 7th Panzer IV companies sent me tank figures of their July lost, repaired, destroyed, enemy tanks killed, actually counted, plus I have SS Korps data that give actual repaired and destroyed AFV figures for July days that I can post. I have all the Citadel DciG and RK award documents for SS At/tank unit members also (and the complete files of these award winners) . . .
I have lists of production plant vehicle numbers for every AFV that the II SS Korps had from that Spring, and will check how many short 75 guns were combat fit in the Korps July 12 to answer your question about short barrel ammo usage . . .

Yoozername
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Re: II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by Yoozername » 18 May 2015 00:56

The data can be compared to a report from 5. Panzer Division. It is a armored division with only four 75mm L43, fourteen 75mmL24, ten 50mmL60, and seventeen 50mmL42. Actually a battalion sized tank force. Panzertruppen 2 has the details on page 41. (date:Feb 22, 43 to 20 Mar 43)

Some things that stand out:
As the 75mm became available, ammunition consumption may have gone down numerically. The 5. Panzer Diviion shows 6937 of ALL types tank gun ammunition. This is for a 4 week period. For the two week period,the II SS PzK fired was just twice that. Since this was Kursk, I assume many units were up to strength and 75mmL43 and L48 weapons were the majority.

It would be interesting to compare kill claims...

EugE
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II SS PzK ammo fired July 12

Post by EugE » 20 Oct 2020 16:07

Does it possible to show the file which show this data and point which sours used NARA or BAMA:

II SS PzK ammo fired July 12, 1943 (late July 12 report):
1645 tons including these rounds:
1387 10 cm Gr19, 170 21 cm Mrs 18, 537 5 cm HE 38 Pak, 720 5 cm Pzgr 39 Pak, 913 5 cm HE KwK 39, 692 5 cm PzGr 39,155 7.5 cm HE Pak 40, 375 7.5 cm PzGr 39, 78 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/A/B, 5460 7.5 cm HE KwK 40, 3840 7.5 cm PzGr 39 Kwk, 1135 7.5 cm GrPatr HL/B
Look for it and you will find it...

Miles Krogfus
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Re: II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by Miles Krogfus » 22 Oct 2020 19:25

Here is page 1 of the II SS Panzer Korps report:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

EugE
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Re: II SS PzK losses during "Citadel"

Post by EugE » 23 Oct 2020 08:13

Hi!
Thank you very much!
I have believed that this report must be into 4 PzAOK. doc.

If it isn't so diffucult write which Roll has this report please.
Look for it and you will find it...

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