352. Division June 1944

[yantaylor]

Hi everyone, just a quick question concerning units in the 352. Infantry Division.
In June 1944, did the German 3/352. Self-propelled Flak Company have either Flakpanzer 38s or Sd.Kfz 6/2s

You do see conflicting data on this unit and even the vehicles and weapons of the other two companies contained in the 352. Panzerjäger Abteilung [1/110 Panzerjäger coy and 1352 Stug coy]

Thank you for any help.
Yan.

[Richard Anderson]

Hi everyone, just a quick question concerning units in the 352. Infantry Division.
In June 1944, did the German 3/352. Self-propelled Flak Company have either Flakpanzer 38s or Sd.Kfz 6/2s

You do see conflicting data on this unit and even the vehicles and weapons of the other two companies contained in the 352. Panzerjäger Abteilung [1/110 Panzerjäger coy and 1352 Stug coy]

Thank you for any help.
Yan.

Could not be Flakpanzer 38 since they were 3.7cm Flak. Much more likely Sd.Kfz. 6/2.

[yantaylor]

Hi Richard and thanks for the reply.
Here are two examples from two different sites concerning this unit;

Example A
352nd Panzerjäger Battalion
1/110th Self Propelled Panzerjäger Company
(14 75mm PAK 40)
3/352nd Self Propelled flak company ((9 37mm guns)
1352nd Sturmgeschütz Company (10 StuGs)

Example B
352nd Panzerjäger Battalion
14 x Marder II and Marder III variant Panzerjäger
- 10 x StuG III Ausf. G assault guns
- 9 x FlaK Panzer 38 Self-Propelled Flak


This is why I asked you guys for help.

Regards
Yan.

[Alanmccoubrey]

Well whichever site said that an Infantry Division had Flakpanzer 38's was wrong, all 140 of those vehicles were issued to Panzer and Panzergrenadier Divisions.

[Manuferey]

The Gliederung of 352 ID dated May 1st, 1944 shows 9 x 3.7 cm motorized Flak guns for 3.(Fla))./Pz.Jg.Abt 352, not self-propelled guns:

352 Pzjg Kp.jpg (17.48 KiB) Viewed 2968 times

Emmanuel

[yantaylor]

Splendid Emmanuel and thanks to the both of you.

I had my doubts about the Flakpanzer 38s as I thought that they were mainly supplied to SS Panzer divisions

Yan.

[Alanmccoubrey]

Splendid Emmanuel and thanks to the both of you.

I had my doubts about the Flakpanzer 38s as I thought that they were mainly supplied to SS Panzer divisions

Yan.

According to Martin Block, all had 12 issued except where noted;

2 PD
21 PD
Lehr
90 Panzergrenadier
26 PD
9 SS
10SS
12SS
17SS (20 issued in total)
HG
29 Panzergrenadier

[yantaylor]

That's very interesting Alan, thanks.

Over half of those above served in France, I will check on my 21 Panzer and see if I have them down.

[Richard Anderson]

The Gliederung of 352 ID dated May 1st, 1944 shows 9 x 3.7 cm motorized Flak guns for 3.(Fla))./Pz.Jg.Abt 352, not self-propelled guns:

Indeed, I should have looked closer. Yes, the Flak Kompanie in 352. was towed. I believe 716.'s was also, but 12 2cm guns. 709. also had 9 3.7cm towed guns, while 243. had four SP and ten towed 2cm.

[jpz4]

Actually your first post was pretty much correct, Richard.
The records show the wrong type of unit, unless they were only partially self-propelled. Evidence shows 3./Pz.Jg.352 was (at least partially) armed with Sd.Kfz.7/2 (will check for 6/2 to be sure though). I would regard the company as being identical to that of its sister, the 353.I.D., which is listed as self-propelled.

3./Pz.Jg.Abt.243 had 8 towed guns, not 10
3./Pz.Jg.Abt.709 indeed had nine 3,7 cm guns, but these were not necessarily all towed. It's a confusing unit.

(Hope to finish my book (Part 1) this summer. It will include photos of some of these units).

@ Yan, it is Example B, but the Marders are all Marder III Ausf.M.
It is also Stu.Gesch.Abt.1352, which was part of Pz.Jg.Abt.352. I know it's weird, but it was an official name change.

[yantaylor]

Thank you jpz4.
Your writing a book my friend, that is very exciting. Good luck.

[yantaylor]

I have also found conflicting views over the infantry gun and Panzerjäger companies in each of the three regiments of the 352. ID, the one that seems authentic to me is this one below;

914. Grenadier Regiment
9. Infantry Gun Kompanie [1 x 15 cm sIG 33 & 6 x 7.5 cm leIG]
10. Panzerjäger Kompanie [2 x 7.5 cm PaK 40 & 1 x 5cm PaK 38]

915. Grenadier Regiment
9. Infantry Gun Kompanie [1 x 15 cm sIG 33 & 1 x 7.5 cm leIG]
10. Panzerjäger Kompanie [2 x 7.5 cm PaK 40 & 1 x 5cm PaK 38]

916. Grenadier Regiment
9. Infantry Gun Kompanie 1 x 15 cm sIG 33 & 2 x 7.5 cm leIG
10. Panzerjäger Kompanie [2 x 7.5 cm PaK 40 & 1 x 5cm PaK 38]

These totals are from the eve of June 6th and other sources give the same totals for all three regiments with the standard;
2 x 15 cm sIG 33 & 6 x 7.5 cm leIG
3 x 7.5 cm PaK 40

Yan.

[jpz4]

First of all, these companies all used the standard numbering. It doesn't matter if a regiment has two or three battalions. These companies are 13.Kp. and 14.Kp.

13.Kp. is a bit complicated. The Gliederung used by Emmanuel (and by Zetterling in his book) shows that each company had two s.IG.33 but the number of le.IG differed. 13./914 and 13./915 were reported with six guns, but 14./916 only had two. However, on 16 May the arrival of another four le.I.G.18 was reported. So I'd say all these companies had two s.I.G. 33 and six le.I.G. 18 on D-Day.

As for 14.Kp., while it is true that an earlier Gliederung of showed two s.Pak and one m.Pak per company, this was last listed on 1 January. On 1 February it had changed to three Pak without specifics. The last report (used by Emmanuel) still shows each 14.Kp. had 3 Pak. The absence of differences tells me they all were Pak 40 as authorized (also confirmed by an officer). BTW, don't forget that these companies also had two platoons with 18 'Panzerschreck' each.

[yantaylor]

That does neaten things up jpz, thank you.
BTW: do you know who commanded these two units from the 21 panzer on June 6th?
200. Kartierung Ablösung
200. Panzer Nachrichten Abteilung

Yan.

[yantaylor]

Good grief I have found another discrepancy, this time in the 716th ID.
I have the 716. Panzerjäger Abteilung down for having ten Marder Is [7.5cm], but apparently these were not delivered, but they had four Lorraine Schlepper’s mounting 15cm howitzers.