12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

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AdrianE
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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by AdrianE » 03 Jul 2021 17:41

With regard to Canadian armoured fighting vehicle losses, Milner's book documents that one troop of M10 tank destroyers from 3rd Canadian AT regiment was attached to Maj. Learment's force. They apparently went forward to Authie. Since no further mention of them is made it seems reasonable to assume thy were knocked out near Authie. Milner also mentions a flail tank being sent forward to Authie.

The Cameron Highlanders were also present with 4 carriers with Vickers MGs. At least one was knocked out in Authie. Two are mentioned as being present at the battle of the anti-tank ditch in the late afternoon, so another may have been knocked out. The North Nova's carrier platoon was also in the battle. If the Germans are counting carriers in their claims, then this could be the source of the discrepency.

With regard to the claims of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers, we need to also look at the losses of 21st Panzer. The Sherbrookes killed several halftracks and "hornets" before they met 12th SS.

So more that just the records of the Sherbrooke Fusiliers need to be checked to ascertain total losses.

For those who don't have the book here is a paper by Milner.
https://www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/ ... t-2012.pdf

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 03 Jul 2021 18:02

Hello,
in another discussion on 'complex west of the Abbey of Ardennes', it was mentioned the presence of several Züge of Flak-Abt.835 fighting at Franqueville. These isolated sections from the 2.Batterie claimed destruction of 2 Allied tanks and then spiked their guns as they were about to be overrun. As I reported, I think due to the calibers announced by I and II./2./Flak.Abt.835 (3 , 7 cm), makes the destruction of TM.10 (reduced armor on the side parts and of the propulsion group) and Bren.Carriers is highly probable. About the action of KG RAUCH establishes in the front curtain with elements of II./Pz.Gr.Rgt.192 (including the whole 6.Kp), but also fragments of II and III./Gr.Rgt.736 (most parts of 10/736, elements of 11 and 12./Gr.Rgt.736, under the command of Hauptmann d.R Kurt MICKISH), many things remain to be said. device set up in the last hours of June 6, the indirect contribution of the remains of I./Pz.Art.155, 11./Art.Rgt.1716 (Sf) and 2./sAA989 (word), etc. ...
Regards
Romain

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Sheldrake
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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by Sheldrake » 03 Jul 2021 19:17

AdrianE wrote:
03 Jul 2021 17:41
With regard to Canadian armoured fighting vehicle losses, Milner's book documents that one troop of M10 tank destroyers from 3rd Canadian AT regiment was attached to Maj. Learment's force. They apparently went forward to Authie. Since no further mention of them is made it seems reasonable to assume thy were knocked out near Authie. Milner also mentions a flail tank being sent forward to Authie.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. None of the AFVs in the German photos could be positively identified as an M10.

The 3rd Anti tank Regiment War diary make a reference to losing three M10s by 10th June. There is no entry on 7th June for the action that morning.

7 June ....105 (Comp) bty did not land with Assault wave due to unloading difficulties, intact Major Love came to Assembly Area at 1900 hrs with word, that CO and Adjt were both still afloat.....

8 June ......Word received that the 94th battery in 7 Cdn Bde area about PUITOT EN BESSIN and BRETTEVILLE L'OURGUELLUESE have seen heavy action and have suffered considerable casualties. Lieut RD barker and 11 OR missing, 5 Ors killed in action, 5 One wounded. While these casualties may be considered heavy, the battery gave a good account of themselves during the engagement. 1O5th(Comp) SP battery have carried out a variety or tasks including smashing pill -boxes, vanguard duty etc. Lieut DC Acker wounded and evacuated, Lieut WT Purkis wounded but still in action. 105th bty eventually consolidated at COULOMBY -SUR-THAON.....

9 June .... To date we have had six pounder guns Knocked out and 3 M10s put out of action.
Note that this does not directly link the losses to the action on the 7th, but "vanguard duty" would fit their role with 9th Brigade. 105 SP battery's losses seem to have been restricted to two wounded officers. Curiously neither the missing Lt Barker or wounded Lt Acker are listed as leaving the unit in the field return of Officers for 9th June nor 16th June. However the field return for Other ranks AF W 3009 (RA) for 9th June does call for one Gunner driver mechanic M10 and one driver operator in addition to the six gunners killed and wounded from 94 battery.

The M10s were not from the Corps Anti tank regiment. The battery due to support the line of advance of 9th Brigade did not land until D+2

AdrianE
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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by AdrianE » 05 Jul 2021 17:27

Hi

Is there any information about how the Sherbrooke's dealt with crossing the antitank ditch?
Did they bridge it with a valentine bridgelayer from the parent formation 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade?
Or did they just go around it? B squadron seems to have bypassed it to the East and A squadron to the West. What about C squadron?
Something else?

This map from the war diary shows they went right over it repeatedly on June 7.
https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/ooci ... 64?r=0&s=3

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Sheldrake
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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by Sheldrake » 06 Jul 2021 19:25

NIcholson's Gunners of Canada says that four of 105 batteries guns were knocked out inland on D Day itself and makes no mention of any M10s knocked out on his write up of Buron. So the three M10s in the 3 Regt WD entry for 9th June must refer to the D Day losses. (see post #33)

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Re: 12th SS v Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Buron-Authie June 7 1944

Post by AdrianE » 14 Jul 2021 04:23

Interestingly 3rd AT drew two new M10s on June 9th but there doesn't seem to be a corresponding write off document.

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/ooci ... 91?r=1&s=2

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