Could Bulgaria or any Axis power purchase a Tiger I in 1943-1944?

[Amnesia]

I am wondering if Bulgaria could purchase a Tiger I from Nazi Germany as an Axis aligned nation and if so for how many Reichmarks?

Given that Bulgaria purchased many Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. G-J panzers and various Jagdpanzers including various Stu.G.s from Germany -around one hundred if I recall correctly- and that additionally the far eastern Axis power of the Empire of Japan purchased a Tiger I. Furthermore in that how Hungary operated -I think 13 Tiger I panzers from Germany- this all adds together to make myself wonder how high was the barrier to purchase a Tiger I in 1943 to 1944 for nations friendly with Nazi Germany; and how practical the trade deal would have been?

There also was the Bär program in World War II in where Nazi Germany exported panzers to -at least- Spain for resources which makes myself wonder if in 1943 to 1944 if the German high command would be open to selling the Tiger I tank to Axis friendly nations; perhaps even more so later in 1944 for a deal of man power for panzers. Such Axis friendly nations which could make such a deal that come to mind are -in descending order of political and economic ties and strength with the Axis-: Italy -I know that If Italy asked for aid in the form of any panzer from Germany that Germany would have been negotiably open to help Italy-, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Croatia, Slovenia, Argentina, Turkey, Afghanistan, China and what ever minor trading nation with a tank force and armed forces and or raw resources that would be willing to trade with Germany in 1943 to 1945.

[Tankdriver1]

Perhaps this issue has another solution. Tiger 1 was unique in its combat capabilities tank is very short - the first mass application was in the summer of 1943, and they have successfully fought SU-152, and in the autumn of the same year in the Soviet army there were specialized anti-tank SU-85, reducing the advantage of Tigers to zero. The allies also appeared tools that can successfully fight the Tigers. In armies needed a large number of medium-size tanks, and Тiger 1 on ratio the price\the quality of, was not very successful machine.

[Amnesia]

Tankdriver1 my friend, then from this perspective why not sell some of these relatively overpriced, overrated and 'obsolete' heavy tanks to people who don't know any better?

Germany it could be argued that at the time has more broken heavy tanks than operational heavy tanks. Why not sell some broken shop squatting heavy tanks that need major repair that are almost always broken anyway -junker vehicles- to the friends of the axis for double or even triple the price of a brand new tank? This kind of war time deal would be just a kin to what the Americans did to the British with the navy in the early part of the Second World War: Sell the broken equipment as full price and give it a band-aid fix and send it on its way. These minor axis powers are running around in auxiliary / reserve tanks most of the time anyway. I am pretty sure that if the marketing was done right there would be buyers. Sell the Tiger I as a super tank, nigh-invincible and that the Axis wants stronger ties to the axis nations with significant manpower so the price is -marketed as- a discount and the reasoning behind the premium is sold off as for the manufacturing and labour and transport cost is very high during war time.

So say that the Axis can sell a broken Tiger I stuck in the shop for a month with a broken transmission, burnt out engine, worn suspension, cracked hull, big damage to the armour. Why not sell some rolling wreck of a Tiger I to an Axis nation with significant man power, this deal is a win-win for the heavy tank has a heavy repair bill that would cost a lot of time and money to fix and may not even be worth the repair effort versus building a brand new Tiger I:
- 250,000 Reichmarks for one junker Tiger I to an Axis Power; why not? According to http://www.alanhamby.com/history.shtml The average cost of a brand new Tiger I was 250,000 Reichsmarks for Germany. That is just one option; continue to pawn off the worn out junk tanks at a premium to the Axis Powers.



Another option would be to export the Tiger I brand new as what was historically brokered between the commands of Japan and Germany in 1943.

The brand new Tiger I sold to Japan was 645,000 Reichmarks according to https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32390
"TIGER I to Japan:
92 rounds, 88mm ammunition
4,500 rounds, machine gun ammunition
192 rounds, machine pistol ammunition
wireless equipment
optical system
Total: 300,000 RM

An export price of 300,000 RM to 645,000 RM: Price breakdown is given as follows:

Engine...13,000 RM
Gear change Mechanism...8,300 RM
Engine...13,000 RM
Hull...54,000 RM
Turret...26,000 RM
Turret assembly...20,000 RM
Chassis assembly...12,400 RM
Tracks...7,000 RM
Gun...22,000 RM
Ammunition...9,000 RM
Optical System...2,900 RM
Radio equipment...3,000 RM
2xMG 34s...1,100 RM
Machine pistol...75 RM"

Yet that included shipping and ammunition and other goods for Japan including technical documents according to: https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/genera ... ese-tiger/

"In 1943, Germany sent Japan two packages of technical documentation, and Japan wanted to purchase the tank. The cost to produce a Tiger was around 300,000 Reichsmarks in 1943, while the Ministry of Armaments and the Henschel Company requested 645,000 Reichsmarks from the Japanese for a fully loaded tank. The Germans had not simply decided to “cash in” on oversea allies: the cost of technical documentation was also included into the amount; and the tank would be supplied with ammunition, an excellent radio, and optics. Also, Germany was prepared to disassemble and pack the thirty-ton tank for shipment by submarine to Japan."

The Bulgarians paid for 10 Panzer 38t of various types including ammunition and some spare parts for 1,471,812 RM (147,181 RM per piece) according to: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/07/16/bulg ... r-part-ii/
"10 On 20.5.1943, the Vienna Arsenal did permit the ČKD (BMM) company to transfer 10 Panzer 38t of various types (currently being repaired in factory) – specifically it was 2 command tanks with both FuG 5 and FuG 2 radios, three FuG 5-only tanks and two FuG 2-only tanks. The Bulgarians paid for the tanks, ammo and some spare parts 1.471.812 RM (147181 RM per piece – to compare: the price for StuG III Ausf.G was 82500 RM, for Panzer IV it was 116000 RM, for a Tiger it was 250800 RM)."

The Pz.Kpfw. 38t cost ~64,000 Reichmarks to produce for Germany according to viewtopic.php?t=32016

How much was the premium for Bulgaria to pay versus the German cost to produce the Pz.Kpfw. 38t?
Math: 147,181 Reichmarks ÷ 64,000 Reichmarks = 2.299703125 (or about ~2.3) times the Reichmarks for Bulgaria to purchase the Pz.kpfw. 38t compared to Germany.

Let us use that same premium ratio of 2.299703125 times for the Tiger I since I cannot find the amount paid for by Bulgaria for the Pz.kpfw. IV tanks they bought from Germany. Simplified logic that is 'good enough' to save the day.
Math for 250,000 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.299703125 x 250,000 = 574,925.78125 Reichmarks
Math for 250,000 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.3 x 250,000 = 575,000 Reichmarks
Math for 250,800 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.299703125 x 250,800 = 576,765.54375 Reichmarks
Math for 250,800 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.3 x 250,800 = 576,840 Reichmarks
Math for 300,000 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.299703125 x 300,000 = 689,910.9375 Reichmarks
Math for 300,000 Reichmarks Tiger I: 2.3 x 300,000 = 690,000 Reichmarks

So approximately ~632,500 Reichmarks for a Tiger I.

That is very close to the full cost of the Japanese Tiger I purchase price with the extra incentives thrown in such as ammunition, spare parts, high quality radio and optics at 645,000 Reichmarks. That is about a ~2% difference in price from my calculations and that of the historical value of what Japan paid for one fully loaded Tiger I. In my personal opinion I will take that as an acceptable margin of error and good gauging value of Axis Powers export price for the Tiger I.

Given that one could argue that a duo of two Tiger I heavy tanks are better than 10 Pz.Kpfw. 38t light tanks in combat effectiveness and that Bulgaria paid 1,471,812 Reichmarks for 10 Pz.Kpfw. 38t light tanks. With the same amount of money paid again to Germany within the framework of Bulgaria's rearmament Plan 43 Bulgaria could acquire at least two brand new Tiger I heavy tanks from Germany with approximately ~206,812 Reichmarks to spare. Possibly these extra ~206,812 Reichmarks funds could be used for extra spare parts and or spare parts manufacturing technical aid given the heavy industry limitations and spare part shortage experience that the Bulgarian armoured forces had to cope with at and up to that time in 1943-1944. Or if the bargaining is hot enough throw in a junker Tiger I that will come as well; maybe adjust the price of purchase for Bulgaria but something worth while could be definitely created that works for both parties.

Two Tiger I heavy tanks would be an ideal number for according to Germany tank doctrine. For panzers operated ideally within a group of at least two panzers supporting each other. Here is an example of such a duo of relatively rare heavy panzers (reinforcing this German panzer doctrine) in Czechoslovakia in 1945 near the end of the Second World War:


A minimum of a duo of Tiger I heavy panzers is what would be ideal and orthodox for Bulgaria to properly operate the Tiger I. Also given that a Tiger I is very hard to tow back to base with Bulgaria's current plans / fleet of Pz.Kpfw.IV medium panzers and that most all Tiger I crews had the experience of being towed by to base by another Tiger I; a duo of Tiger I heavy tanks would be operationally ideal for Bulgaria.



Summary:

Bulgaria already historically paid enough Reichmarks for a minimum of 2 brand new Tiger I tanks within the historical order for Bulgaria to purchase effectively 10 sub-par Pz.Kpfw. 38t light tanks from Germany. The combat effectiveness of a duo of brand new Tiger I heavy tanks outweighing 10 Pz.Kpfw. 38t light tanks would be a relatively hard argument to go against as well given the combat record of Tiger I tanks verses T-34/76 tanks at the time in 1943. Effectively the Tiger I in 1943 could be pitched as the world's greatest combat proven tank.

TL:DR Bulgaria can into Tiger I, just do another Bulgarian purchase of x10 Pz.Kpfw. 38t light tanks deal in 1943 but for two or three Tiger I heavy panzers and for the Bulgarian command press for better service after the all the crappy tanks Germany pawned off on Bulgaria prior.


The purchase of junker or brand new Tiger I heavy panzers, Bulgaria could have reasonably ventured in both directions. The verdict of the Tiger I for Bulgaria: Historically do-able project.

[Tankdriver1]

The Japanese paid for the Tiger, but did not take it a Heavy tank is needed in the attack on fortified positions or in defense. But the Russians after the Kursk bulge had almost no fortified positions, and with the ability to manage their troops well and high mobility, the position of the Tigers are bypassed, surrounded, with all the ensuing consequences. The Russians gave the Germans in 1941 on the contrary - now the Germans having superior tanks, suffered defeat after defeat. In fairness, I must say that the Germans simply had no choice but to make super-tanks, because the shaft of the production of allies, they could not overcome. But the allies of Germany such tanks would not have given anything - the war was already different. And there were few of them, and the service is very expensive. As one proverb says-if you want to ruin a small state-give him a cruiser

[Mobius]

I am wondering if Bulgaria could purchase a Tiger I from Nazi Germany as an Axis aligned nation and if so for how many Reichmarks?

What was their credit rating and would they need a co-signer?

[Yoozername]

Two Tiger I heavy tanks would be an ideal number for according to Germany tank doctrine. For panzers operated ideally within a group of at least two panzers supporting each other. Here is an example of such a duo of relatively rare heavy panzers (reinforcing this German panzer doctrine) in Czechoslovakia in 1945 near the end of the Second World War:


A minimum of a duo of Tiger I heavy panzers is what would be ideal and orthodox for Bulgaria to properly operate the Tiger I. Also given that a Tiger I is very hard to tow back to base with Bulgaria's current plans / fleet of Pz.Kpfw.IV medium panzers and that most all Tiger I crews had the experience of being towed by to base by another Tiger I; a duo of Tiger I heavy tanks would be operationally ideal for Bulgaria.

Those are two Tiger II's, of course, and they are not supporting each other. If you look closely, they are not in any battle shape. More than likely just returns for scrap or homeland repair. Waiting for a train.

And I don't think heavy tanks should be used in pairs. They were purposely set up to be in battalions. They required special repair and supply.

[Amnesia]

These are all good points but did Bulgarian command think like this in the war? They used Panthers when given them later so I am sure that they would have no issue using Tiger I heavy tanks if given the chance.

Perhaps we are giving the battle / war meta of the Bulgarian / most of the warring nations in Europe too much credit for -then- learning brand new war time tactics and war time economics over from their previous Great war command dogmas; zeitgeist and all that. There were many failed plans to win on both sides; no one can really see into the future.

Plus Bulgaria was a bit paranoid of their traditional Turkish threat and the Bulgarian command even made defensive tank bunkers out of their old German panzers later after the war. So as a defensive weapon a Tiger I would great if not even better than an offensive weapon as well.

Hell people buy things that they don't need, with money they don't have; while wasting time they cannot afford to waste. Just like super cars and houses that people cannot pay off. Another good -yet exploitative- saying is that: No one ever went broke underestimating the average intelligence of the average population.

For a great example of this short coming fallacy within human nature on full tilt display within the high command of a warring power look no further than the Italian command's tank program leading up to and during the Second World War. Just look at the interwar and war time Italian armoured forces and resources allocated compared to the Italian command's battleship ambition's ineptitude. Effectively the Italian command with their armoured forces was the Maus program's final result, just on steroids.

People back in the day fighting the Second World War did not have our foresight, deep years worth of digital archives and big well curated history of the war they found themselves currently fighting. Yet at the end of the day people are only so human.