Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#16

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 13 Nov 2018, 13:59

Yan, you'll find that those two units had several different makeups during 1942 so you might need to decide on a month ! You will definitely find that both had SdKfz 250's armed with French 25mm ATG and German 7,5cm leIG 18's, without the shields in the latter case.
Alan

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yantaylor
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#17

Post by yantaylor » 14 Nov 2018, 12:16

Thanks Alan, that is what I find so fascinating about these two battalions, but you are totally correct, it is a big task which requires breaking down into segments to determine what they had at a particular stage in that year.

I am surprised at the SdKfz 250's, I thought that these were rather rare in desert and those that did make it were usually used as command vehicles.
I remember asking on another thread, the amount of SdKfz 250's and SdKfz 251's available to the DAK, and if I recall the numbers were quite small.
Most of the infantry traveled in trucks rather than APCs.

Thanks
Yan.


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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#18

Post by yantaylor » 15 Nov 2018, 22:49

Alan, are those 75mm versions the Sd.Kfz. 250/8?
Or some field conversion mounting a 75mm IG minus its shield?

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Yan.

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#19

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 16 Nov 2018, 20:15

Yan, they were 250's with the little 7,5cm leIG 18 on them, a field mod. Sadly I just cannot find the photographs that I have of them.
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#20

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 16 Nov 2018, 20:25

Just found the French 25mm conversion.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 63399.html
Alan

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#21

Post by yantaylor » 16 Nov 2018, 22:06

Thanks Alan.

Good God, the length of that 25mm barrel is so long, just compare it to the 3.7mm PaK 36 on the right. But is it a Hotchkiss or a Puteaux?
Think it may be a Canon Antichar de 25 SA-L Modèle 1937, which was a Puteaux gun and had a barrel length of 1.925mm (L/77).

The 25mm French weapon could penetrate 29mm @ 500m @ 30°, with the PaK 36 being slightly better at 31mm @ 500m @ 30°.
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Yan

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yantaylor
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#22

Post by yantaylor » 17 Nov 2018, 14:22

Another vehicle with very scant data is the 5cm PaK 38 (sf) Auf Zugkraftwagen 1t. I can't any data on numbers built or the units who used them, in fact all I can find is that it could have been a field conversion which was only used by the SS in Russia.

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Yan.

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#23

Post by Zbynek » 29 Nov 2018, 21:22

Yan,
5cm PaK 38 (sf) Auf Zugkraftwagen 1t does interest me as well. I have two books with the same photo of this vehicle. In one of them it is supposed to belong to SS Wiking in winter 1942/43. In another book about the 3rd Battle of Kharkov this vehicle is described as belonging to SS Leibstandarte division. ?
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#24

Post by arminfreitag » 29 Nov 2018, 22:56

Here some more pictures of this conversion.
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Armin
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#25

Post by SIS 5 » 02 Dec 2018, 01:47

Hi Zbynek, hi Armin,

the conversion on pic 4 Armin posted is a vehicle of the 16 PzGrenDiv., 3rd company Pz.Jg.Abt. 228 (source: Waffen-Arsenal Band 129: "Leichte Zugkraftwagen der Wehrmacht im Einsatz" by Reinhard Frank.

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Bert

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#26

Post by SIS 5 » 02 Dec 2018, 02:28

ho Zbynek,

here another pic of the vehicle You are interested in. Maybe the same vehicle (source: Waffen-Arsenal Band 170 "Die 5-cm-Panzerjägerkanone 38" by Wolfgang Fleischer). I think that this vehicle belongs to SS Leibstandarte division, because the vehicles in the background fit to the battle of Kharkov in the winter 1943.

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Bert
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Zbynek
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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#27

Post by Zbynek » 02 Dec 2018, 13:29

SIS 5 thank you for the information.

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#28

Post by Yoozername » 02 Dec 2018, 16:39

I have seen these in a couple of videos. One is from a recon unit. If I see them again, I will post a link.

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Re: Sdkfz 233 Stummel - information needed

#29

Post by yantaylor » 03 Dec 2018, 22:48

Thanks everyone, great photos too!

Was this just a field conversion as there is no total for numbers produced, any vehicles built in German factories would be numbered.

I would have thought that this vehicle would be useful in light units like recon battalions, they could be in the heavy company of recon infantry companies along with Sd.Kfz. 250/7s and Sd.Kfz. 250/8s.

Yan.

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