Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Miles Krogfus
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 08 May 2015 19:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Miles Krogfus » 18 Nov 2018 00:38

Page 1: The morning of 8 July, these figures had been collected from all three II SS Pz.Korps divisions.
Page 2: Then on 9 July, the results of checking the number and type of Soviet tanks by OKW Panzer officer Alexander von Grundherr.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

EugE
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 Jun 2011 00:42

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by EugE » 21 Nov 2018 15:04

On that day, DR suffered two company commanders - Lorentz and Zinn KIA, several platoon comanders from a tank regiment the same: have been KIA, one Tiger totalaustfalle in a battle with two soviet armored trains. Totenkopf also has lost one Tiger on this day in a battle with the same armoured trains. And the kommander of the SS-Pz.Rgt 3 has been killed.
Look for it and you will find it...

Miles Krogfus
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 08 May 2015 19:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Miles Krogfus » 23 Nov 2018 22:33

Herbert Zimmermann, Tiger company CO, had his arm severely wounded in the morning so Karl-Heinz Lorenz was sent from 2 SS Pz.Rgt. HQ to take over acting command of the company. Later that day he was killed and his Tiger S24 damaged. The Tigers claimed 10 Soviet tanks shot and Ustuf. Hans Mennel in a 6th Komp. Panzer IV shot 8.
Later S24 was repaired. A Das Reich armor status report of July 10 shows that Pz III 514 could not be repaired. One Pz. IV was destroyed from the 5th through the 9th, thus either 1 or 2 Das Reich Panzers were write offs on the 7th. The attachments below show the production # and location of all panzer combat and technical losses on the 7th.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

EugE
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 Jun 2011 00:42

Tiger place

Post by EugE » 21 Dec 2018 15:54

I can't recognize on the diagram the place where was knocked out the PzKpfw VI.
Look for it and you will find it...

Miles Krogfus
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 08 May 2015 19:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Miles Krogfus » 23 Dec 2018 04:28

The sketch map shows Panzers "Ausfallerte" at the place that leads into Lutschki where it branches into four ways.

EugE
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 Jun 2011 00:42

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by EugE » 25 Jan 2019 14:27

Hi!
Mainly the DR units acted against the 5 g.TC and parts of the 51 g.RD (158 rifle regiment). I have checked all records of these units and discovered that all tank attacks had been more northern. Also, I compared the maps from SS-PzKorps and Red Army units. At least four Tigers participated in the first attack in North of Kalinin in direction to the Belenichino railroad station, in one of them was Kriegsberichterstatter this Tiger has been knocked out first by the armored trains, A/T artillery and tanks of 20 g.Tbr.
When the crew has abandoned Tiger and moved back to the village, they saw how the armored trains (№ 737 and 746) hit other Tiger (S24), with the company commander, by big caliber gun - according to reports of 6 g. A this train had few 100 mm Guns. At the Belenichino located the 20 g.tbr of 5 g.TC.
It happened 2 km. to East from Kalinin on the mound.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Look for it and you will find it...

Miles Krogfus
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 08 May 2015 19:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Miles Krogfus » 11 Feb 2019 01:42

SS ID photo for Herbert Zimmermann, born May 31,1916.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

French
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 18:31

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by French » 16 Jul 2019 21:22

EugE, excellent information. Where can I find more information about the two Soviet armored trains, 737 and 746? Tiger S24 was one panzer in the fight; do you have the turret number of the other one?

Thanks for posting this; love the map.

EugE
Member
Posts: 217
Joined: 10 Jun 2011 00:42

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by EugE » 17 Jul 2019 20:18

The information about the two Soviet armored trains you can find in Soviet 6 g.A records or if you have ability in russian language I can share with reports of this trains. The turret numbers you can find in Warnik&Gazenave book S11, S21, S31. The first Tiger with Kriegsberichterstatter was S21.
Look for it and you will find it...

French
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 18:31

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by French » 21 Jul 2019 02:21

Thank you so much. Yes, I believe the trains had up to 107mm guns, somewhat older models but powerful none-the-less. I do not speak Russian unfortunately. Wonder if either train was knocked out or made it northeast to safety? S24 was hammered very hard and I believe was the DR Tiger declared a total loss. for the offensive July 5-15.

Byrden
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 12:00
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Byrden » 08 Sep 2019 16:38

That Tiger "S24" is the same one that had the number "823" overpainted on "832" earlier in 1943.

http://tiger1.info/tank-page/A4F

Looking at the damage in Miles' photo, I find it hard to believe that it would ever be put back into service! Where is that info coming from?

David

Miles Krogfus
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 08 May 2015 19:54
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Miles Krogfus » 10 Sep 2019 04:32

Here are II SS Panzer Korps documents. Page 1 from July11/12 gives the "Totalausfalle" (completely lost or write-offs) for July 5 to July 11: Das Reich with no Tigers written off. Page 2 from July 28 gives the totally lost from July 5 to July 18, 1943. Note that the 1 SS LAH Tiger was not destroyed but sent back to Germany for possible repair.
2 SS Das Reich Tiger S24, damaged on July 7, was repaired and returned to combat with that division.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Byrden
Member
Posts: 76
Joined: 16 Jan 2005 12:00
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Byrden » 10 Sep 2019 07:50

Thank you !

David

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 5972
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Michael Kenny » 11 Sep 2019 23:03

On July 5 1st,2nd, & 3rd SS had a total of 408 tanks. On July 17 the had 220 tanks, That means the very minimum number of tank casualties is 188. It could be a lot more as tanks were continually going in and out of repair. 300+ tank casualties July 5th-17th would be a reasonable guess.

Stiltzkin
Member
Posts: 1009
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 12:29
Location: Germany

Re: Das Reich 7 July 1943 Combat Success Data

Post by Stiltzkin » 12 Sep 2019 14:47

On July 5 1st,2nd, & 3rd SS had a total of 408 tanks. On July 17 the had 220 tanks, That means the very minimum number of tank casualties is 188. It could be a lot more as tanks were continually going in and out of repair. 300+ tank casualties July 5th-17th would be a reasonable guess.
288 for the Corps during this period to be precise (to the 11th). 388 for the operation. 55 for the 7th of July alone (all causes), but these are just temporary, so 46 Totalausfälle.

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”