Torsion Bar Suspension Analysis: A Panther Primer

[Yoozername]

This image gives a good detail of the Tiger I but the Panther was similar...

Cutaway showing the roadwheels, axle, swingarm, hydraulic
shock and torsion bar as it passes through the hull.

http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html

[Yoozername]

Another Bulge Panther, level ground, again, unburned rubber roadwheels, torsion suspension down on bump-stops. Blackened mantlet. Seems that interior fires may not always spread to the rubber roadwheels.

Knocked- out Panthers Ausf G in Krinkelt, Belgium Battle of the Bulge 17 December 1944

[Cult Icon]

what happened to the cannon?

[Yoozername]

Shot off by a sherman, I believe a close ranged encounter in fog. Note how clean the running gear is. Evidently, they have not been in the mud. I believe the white on the front of the tank is winter camo, not 'Kenny-Bloomage'...burning might have removed the pine bows on the front hull....

[Michael Kenny]

Shot off by a sherman, I believe a close ranged encounter in fog. Note how clean the running gear is. Evidently, they have not been in the mud. I believe the white on the front of the tank is winter camo, not 'Kenny-Bloomage'...burning might have removed the pine bows on the front hull....

There is a calcified crewman lying behind the turret.

[Michael Kenny]

A colour pic some time later when the two Panther wrecks have swapped positions. Note the rear of the turret.

Original alignment.

[Tom from Cornwall]

Michael,

That colour photograph is interesting - look at the roofs of the houses. The house on the left has had quite an impressive renovation!

Regards

Tom

[Yoozername]

This well known photo shows the difference between the Tiger II and the Panther or Tiger I. It was actually simpler with a single torsion bar instead of the Panther torsion system described previously. The Panther II would have had something like this.





Something interesting is that torsion bars need to be not only greased through fittings (the Germans had a nice system for this), but they also need to be clean, and water/nicks rust etc. can degrade them.

[Yoozername]

This overturned Panther shows the following:
Place: Norrey-en-Bessin, Normandy, France
Overturned 12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" Panther Ausf A

Many road wheels still have 'suspension', and are pushed up in the picture. The 'leading' roadwheel, behind the sprocket, is lax and has a snapped torsion bar (inside). A swing arm is evident on the foreground and is still attached to a piece of its snapped torsion bar. If you look closely, there is a swing arm without a wheel(s) next to the left-most wheel.

I would expect that if this burned out, the heat would certainly get to the suspension. But, apparently, it didn't.

A heavily damaged Panzerkampfwagen V Panther ausf A of the 3.Kompanie/1.Abteilung/SS-Panzer-Regiment 12/12.SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" lies flipped over next to the road between Norrey-en-Bessin and Bretteville-l'Orgueilleuse. Note the sign attached that says "remove gearbox." After the failure of the 1st Abteilung's 1st and 4th Companies of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment to seize Bretteville-l'Orgueilleuse on the night of June 8-9, 1944, SS-Oberführer (later SS-Brigadeführer) Kurt "Panzer" Meyer ordered the recently arrived 3rd Company to attack Norrey in a daring daylight armored thrust. Again outpacing their infantry with orders to stop only to fire, the Panthers turned from the Caen-Bayeux Highway into the fields to attack the 1st Battalion, The Regina Rifle Regiment, 3rd Canadian Division. However, expecting the Canadians to open fire with their 6-pounder 57mm (2.24 inch) anti-tank guns and thus turning towards them to put their 80mm frontal armor to the Canadians, the Panthers under Hauptmann Luedemann exposed their side and rear flanks to fire from nine Canadian Shermans of C Squadron, 25th Armored Delivery "Elgin Regiment" who were bringing replacement tanks as reinforcements from Juno Beach. The Elgins' tanks included Sherman Fireflies armed with a 17-pounder 77mm (3 inch) anti-tank gun. Seven Panthers were destroyed; fifteen of thirty-five crewmen were killed; the rest were burned or wounded. As the Panthers withdrew, they were hit by artillery fire from the Canadians and Allied ships offshore. Later, this Panther was overturned by Allied Engineers to remove it from the road. It is often reported that this tank was hit by fighter-bombers; the damage to the hull bottom is the result of tests by the engineers to see what explosives could damage the tank.

Source:
http://www.worldwar2database.com/galler ... p/wwii0141

[Michael Kenny]

This overturned Panther shows the following:
Place: Norrey-en-Bessin, Normandy, France
Overturned 12. SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" Panther Ausf A

Many road wheels still have 'suspension', and are pushed up in the picture. The 'leading' roadwheel, behind the sprocket, is lax and has a snapped torsion bar (inside). A swing arm is evident on the foreground and is still attached to a piece of its snapped torsion bar. If you look closely, there is a swing arm without a wheel(s) next to the left-most wheel.

I would expect that if this burned out, the heat would certainly get to the suspension. But, apparently, it didn't.

A heavily damaged Panzerkampfwagen V Panther ausf A of the 3.Kompanie/1.Abteilung/SS-Panzer-Regiment 12/12.SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" lies flipped over next to the road between Norrey-en-Bessin and Bretteville-l'Orgueilleuse........................... The Elgins' tanks included Sherman Fireflies armed with a 17-pounder 77mm (3 inch) anti-tank gun. Seven Panthers were destroyed; fifteen of thirty-five crewmen were killed; the rest were burned or wounded.

Source:
http://www.worldwar2database.com/galler ... p/wwii0141

This Panther is not one of the group caught in the open. It is some distance away from the well-known wrecks.

This is an overview with the yellow square being the upturned Panther and the red circles the group of 5 wrecked Panthers.

Bretteville-l’Orgueilleuse top LH

Other views:

The pic posted in the previous post is said to be a LAC photo in the linked site but I know it is from the IWM 'CL' Series of photos (CL398)and that means taken by an RAF cameraman. Clearly the RAF had it marked down as a 'air-kill'!

[Yoozername]

The pic posted in the previous post is said to be a LAC photo in the linked site but I know it is from the IWM 'CL' Series of photos (CL398)and that means taken by an RAF cameraman. Clearly the RAF had it marked down as a 'air-kill'!

What linked site??

[Michael Kenny]

What linked site??

The site you linked

Source:
http://www.worldwar2database.com/galler ... p/wwii0141

[Yoozername]

You said...

The pic posted in the previous post is said to be a LAC photo in the linked site but I know it is from the IWM 'CL' Series of photos (CL398)and that means taken by an RAF cameraman. Clearly the RAF had it marked down as a 'air-kill'!

Quote said...

A heavily damaged Panzerkampfwagen V Panther ausf A of the 3.Kompanie/1.Abteilung/SS-Panzer-Regiment 12/12.SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend" lies flipped over next to the road between Norrey-en-Bessin and Bretteville-l'Orgueilleuse

Later, this Panther was overturned by Allied Engineers to remove it from the road. It is often reported that this tank was hit by fighter-bombers; the damage to the hull bottom is the result of tests by the engineers to see what explosives could damage the tank.

Not sure where you think it was 'aid to be a LAC photo in the linked site'?

In fact, the link doesn't work.

[Michael Kenny]

You said...



Not sure where you think it was 'said to be a LAC photo in the linked site'?

In fact, the link doesn't work.

This one does.
http://worldwar2database.com/gallery/wwii0141

I guess you were just re-posting a post that linked to the original article.

The original photo is an IWM CL series photo.
More to the point the linked post(?) is incorrect/confusing.
That is not one of the Panthers destroyed in the field south of the railway line from Bretteville to Caen.

[Yoozername]

Did it specifically say it was?