Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

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JackieK
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Location: UK

Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by JackieK » 27 May 2019 14:01

Hey guys,

I've been struggling to find information which could confirm my decal choices for the model I'm currently building. I need to pick the right division insignia along with the marking which signifies the vehicle's tactical assignment. The plates have 7 digits which throws me off as well.

For the former, the kit manufacturer suggests Grossdeutschland, but since I happen to have decals for different divisions, I want to get this right:

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as far as tactical markings are concerned, I'm wondering between these two:

below the 223's plate here - seems to appear on most photos:
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or the one suggested by the manufacturer:

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which is a modification of this one:
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Here's a nice photo of the decal sheet supplied for the kit:
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and finally the photo of the vehicle. The plates are clearly visible. I haven't been able to find any information on the marking on the side. Any help would be greatly appreciated :milsmile:.

Image

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 May 2019 16:34

If you are going to use the GD Helmet then you have to use the Motorcycle Symbol , number 13 on your sheet, since that is how GD marked its vehicles prior to mid 1943. I would point out that if the instructions are to use the Windmill, number 10 on your sheet, is not what GD used on its vehicles but is a mistaken impression of the Owl that they actually used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82596826@N03/36326896392
Alan

JackieK
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Location: UK

Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by JackieK » 27 May 2019 20:10

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
27 May 2019 16:34
If you are going to use the GD Helmet then you have to use the Motorcycle Symbol , number 13 on your sheet, since that is how GD marked its vehicles prior to mid 1943. I would point out that if the instructions are to use the Windmill, number 10 on your sheet, is not what GD used on its vehicles but is a mistaken impression of the Owl that they actually used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82596826@N03/36326896392
Thank you for the prompt reply and the excellent source.

Since you called the number 10 marking a "Windmill", I'm assuming it's an actual symbol that was in use and not just the manufacturer's error, right? If so, perhaps the idea to use GB Helmet is misguided in the first place?

Let's say I wanted to pick the division markings to match the symbol on the side of the vehicle, be it the Owl or the Windmill, because it's the only distinctive feature visible.

The marking does indeed look like it could be the Owl, and most probably is, but for the top feathers, which cast some doubt. So assuming the Windmill is an actual thing, and it's the symbol depicted on the photo, what would be the division and the tactical assignment symbol? Sorry, but I'm struggling to find the source for the number 10 symbol online. Thanks in advance.

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 28 May 2019 13:03

One of the Waffen SS Divisions which fought at Arnhem may have used a Windmill after that battle but since that clearly isn't what your sheet is for I believe that the maker has just made an error.
Alan

Michael Dorosh
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Michael Dorosh » 19 Jan 2021 04:23

I was of the understanding the GD armoured recce battalion used the windmill as a reference to a geographical feature at Stonne, where the old I.R. GD fought a major battle in May 1940 - but I was never able to verify it.

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 19 Jan 2021 20:55

Michael Dorosh wrote:
19 Jan 2021 04:23
I was of the understanding the GD armoured recce battalion used the windmill as a reference to a geographical feature at Stonne, where the old I.R. GD fought a major battle in May 1940 - but I was never able to verify it.
At the risk of repeating myself in the hope you'll read posts above your own.
I believe that it wasn't a Windmill but an Owl which had just been misidentified in a poor quality photograph. I think there are a couple of clear photographs on this link.

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/82596 ... 326896392/
Alan

Michael Dorosh
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Location: Calgary, Alberta

Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Michael Dorosh » 20 Jan 2021 04:58

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
19 Jan 2021 20:55
Michael Dorosh wrote:
19 Jan 2021 04:23
I was of the understanding the GD armoured recce battalion used the windmill as a reference to a geographical feature at Stonne, where the old I.R. GD fought a major battle in May 1940 - but I was never able to verify it.
At the risk of repeating myself in the hope you'll read posts above your own.
I believe that it wasn't a Windmill but an Owl which had just been misidentified in a poor quality photograph. I think there are a couple of clear photographs on this link.

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/82596 ... 326896392/
I read all the comments, thank you for your concern though. I didn't happen to think "a picture on Flickr" was as compelling a source as you apparently do.

Yoozername
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Yoozername » 21 Jan 2021 02:06

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
27 May 2019 16:34
If you are going to use the GD Helmet then you have to use the Motorcycle Symbol , number 13 on your sheet, since that is how GD marked its vehicles prior to mid 1943. I would point out that if the instructions are to use the Windmill, number 10 on your sheet, is not what GD used on its vehicles but is a mistaken impression of the Owl that they actually used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82596826@N03/36326896392

This guy uses both. LOL!!!

Image

spannermann
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by spannermann » 23 Jan 2021 20:54

Hi,
The replica above has copied a genuine WW2 photo, cannot find it at the moment, but here is another vehicle from the same company with the same markings.

Note how close in sequence the seven digit number plate is on this vehicle and the decal sheet numbers.
pictures_0002.jpg
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spannermann
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by spannermann » 25 Jan 2021 20:42

Another photo showing the divisional, tactical and unit (Owl) signs.

cheers
ss-l1600 (3).jpg
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Sleipnir11
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Sleipnir11 » 26 Jul 2021 00:49

Alanmccoubrey wrote:
27 May 2019 16:34
If you are going to use the GD Helmet then you have to use the Motorcycle Symbol , number 13 on your sheet, since that is how GD marked its vehicles prior to mid 1943. I would point out that if the instructions are to use the Windmill, number 10 on your sheet, is not what GD used on its vehicles but is a mistaken impression of the Owl that they actually used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/82596826@N03/36326896392
When Kradschützen-Bataillon GD was in early 1943 reorganized into Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung GD, did they also change the tactical sign from Motorcycle to Armored vehicle as well? Would appreciate if there is a photo of the tactical sign used by PzAA GD after 1943.

Here is a close up of the Owl symbol. Was it discontinued some time?
64362900-D8FA-436F-9491-080C6848340A.jpeg
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: Sd. Kfz. 222 insignia, plates and division help?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 27 Jul 2021 15:51

Sorry to say that I have no idea.
Alan

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