Bad day for the Panthers.

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Michael Kenny
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Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 07 Oct 2019 21:56

This is a war diary appendix from 49 th Div War Diary. WO171/500
Sherman v Panther Rauray (2) .jpg
Sherman v Panther Rauray (3) .jpg
Sherman v Panther Rauray (4) .jpg
http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/24 ... -44.71939/
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Avalancheon
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Avalancheon » 07 Oct 2019 23:14

Interesting snapshot of the battle. What formations were the British fighting at Rauray? This would have been the 2nd SS panzer, or 9th SS panzer division?

Rauray was the scene of some intense fighting for sure. The 24th Lancers and Sherwood Rangers scored alot of kills there.

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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Oct 2019 13:00

A regimental battlegroup from the 2.SS (still in transit): KG Weidinger

Michael Kenny
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 08 Oct 2019 23:40

Given the date and the location of 24L that day it must be 9th SS Panthers.

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Gorque
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Gorque » 09 Oct 2019 00:45

Michael Kenny.....aka......Panther fan-boi troll. :P :P

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 12 Oct 2019 09:02

I think Weidinger’s battle group was only Panzergrenadiers. With armour being provided from elsewhere?

Regards

Tom

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Mobius
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Mobius » 12 Oct 2019 19:06

Michael Kenny wrote:
08 Oct 2019 23:40
Given the date and the location of 24L that day it must be 9th SS Panthers.
So is it backed up by their records?

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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Miles Krogfus » 12 Oct 2019 20:08

Pages 163-165 of the 24th Lancers history that include July 1,1944 results.
In 3 days of combat through that date, SS Panzer Regiment 9 reported 16 Panzer IV, 6 Panthers and 10 Sturmgeschutze as written off (destroyed or abandoned).
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Last edited by Miles Krogfus on 13 Oct 2019 02:28, edited 3 times in total.

Michael Kenny
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 12 Oct 2019 22:46

Mobius wrote:
12 Oct 2019 19:06

So is it backed up by their records?
The War Diary is one of the awkward hand-written ones. I have not yet fully deciphered it but there is this:
24 Lancers Rauray ,,..h. (1).jpg
24 Lancers Rauray ,,... (2).jpg
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Michael Kenny
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 12 Oct 2019 23:43

Kevin Baverstock's book 'Breaking the Panzers' has the claims for July 1st at Rauray.
aug 16 2019549.jpg
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Richard Anderson
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Richard Anderson » 13 Oct 2019 02:26

Michael Kenny wrote:
12 Oct 2019 22:46

The War Diary is one of the awkward hand-written ones. I have not yet fully deciphered it but there is this:

24 Lancers Rauray
Um "MAYFLY"? I thought it was FIREFLY. :D What is the date on that?
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Michael Kenny
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 13 Oct 2019 02:40

I didn't keep the exact date but it will be in the appendix for July 1944.

Yoozername
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Yoozername » 13 Oct 2019 02:52

Good day for the 'Mayflies'...the most feared invertebrate known to the Royal Kingdom.... To be nice...this is the burrowing Mayfly.... :D


Image

Yummy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oqsLVEVKgs

Michael Kenny
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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Michael Kenny » 14 Oct 2019 03:10

Another example of German crews abandoning Tiger and Panther tanks from the same area but a few days earlier.

Stuart Hill, By Tank Into Normandy.
Cassell 2002 ISBN 0304362166
Hill was in SRY (Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry) 8th Armoured Brigade and 24th Lancers (mentioned in the reports in previous posts) were in the same 8th AB.

26-27th June 1944.

Meanwhile A Squadron had begun moving up from Fontenay, the plan being that they would come through us and thrust towards Rauray.
John Semken was Squadron Leader and he had already heard from C Squadron that there were tanks about, so his gun loader put an AP shell up the spout, just in case. As they cleared Fontenay, they were suddenly confronted by an enormous tank coming round the bend in front. It was hard to know who was more surprised, but John shrieked, 'Fire, it's a Hun', and they loosed off about ten rounds into the smoke. As this cleared away, it was observed that the crew were baling out as small flames came from inside the tank. It was a Tiger of 12th SS Panzer, the
first Tiger to be captured in Normandy, and made an impressive sight at close quarters as both its size and the thickness of its armour became apparent. Although the range had been only sixty yards, not one Sherman shell had penetrated that armour. The fire in the Tiger, we discovered, had instead been caused by a shot hitting the side of the driver's observation visor and showering white-hot splinters into the tank. The driver had screamed that he had been hit and the commander had obligingly ordered his crew out.
A Squadron squeezed past the Tiger and into a field on the right where they deployed. During the next two hours they systematically shot up every hedgerow as they advanced. Some of John Semken's tanks were Sherman Fireflies, and they started knocking out one German tank after another. Sergeant Dring claimed no less than four himself,
and a Panther was shot up by the whole squadron as it drove across our front, its crew baling out as it was still moving. The German infantry started to surrender, leaping out of the ground under the noses of the tanks, while our own infantry came up to finish things off.
It had been a great day. Thirteen Panzer Mark IVs had been knocked out, along with a Tiger and a Panther. The enemy tank force defending Rauray had been eliminated and their infantry overrun. Aggressive tactics had paid off, and at relatively small cost to ourselves. C Squadron had lost two tanks, with two dead and two wounded. I felt encouraged by the way each squadron had performed and this was reflected in the general morale of my troop, in spite of the casualties. We had won a tank battle against significant opposition, and this gave our confidence an important boost.

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Re: Bad day for the Panthers.

Post by Yoozername » 14 Oct 2019 03:44


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