Char B 75mm AP rounds

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Brady
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Char B 75mm AP rounds

#1

Post by Brady » 12 Dec 2019, 01:50

75 mm ABS SA 35 howitzer,

Had a AP round did it not ? I recall seeing a reference for it before but it was some time ago, anyone have something handy on it:

1) How many were typically carried

2) its Performance

And Apart from HE did they have any other rounds for it like Smoke that were carried ?

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Mobius
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#2

Post by Mobius » 12 Dec 2019, 02:34

Apparently, yes.
It may have a MV of 220 m/s.
http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/inde ... chars?id=6
https://www.france-histoire-esperance.c ... b1-bis-22/

One problem I found is that the only penetration I found is given as 40mm@30°at 400m. But that may be a confusion with another gun.
Where 220m/s would give about 21mm of penetration @ 0° @ 500 m.
Last edited by Mobius on 12 Dec 2019, 02:57, edited 1 time in total.


Brady
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#3

Post by Brady » 12 Dec 2019, 02:50

Mobius wrote:
12 Dec 2019, 02:34
Apparently, yes.
It may have a MV of 220 m/s.
http://www.chars-francais.net/2015/inde ... chars?id=6
https://www.france-histoire-esperance.c ... b1-bis-22/

One problem I found is that the only penetration I found is given as 40mm@30°at 400m. But that may be a confusion with another gun.
Thanks you for the Links, but they don't mention the AP round for the 75 mm Gun ?

Brady
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#4

Post by Brady » 12 Dec 2019, 04:06

Found this:

75mm SA35 L/17.1
Renault B1 and B1bis hull gun
Theoretical rate of fire : 15 rpm (in a B1bis tank, RoF will be about 6 rpm with APHE and the 6 first HE shells, but 2-4 rpm probably with following HE shells, time to put the fuzes on the shells.)
Telescopic sight : two L.710 sights for the 75mm SA35 gun forming prismatic binocular sights (each sight with 3.5x magnification, field of view 11.15° and range ladders, adjustable drum up to 1600m for the HE shells and 1560m for the APHE shells).
Practical AT range : 800-1000m

Ammunition :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 475 m/s
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
The APHE shell is intended to detonate once the armor has been penetrated. Because of the necessity for a hard point to APHE shells, the fuze is fitted into the base of the projectile. This fuze acts through inertia. As the shell passes up the barrel, either the shock of firing or the rapid rotation removes a safety device and arms the fuze. This fuze contains roughly a weight held by a spring. When the shell hits something hard, momentum throws the weight forward so it strikes the firing element of the fuze and thereby ignites the HE filler of the APHE shell.

Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.550 kg (740g explosive)
V° = 500 m/s
Equipped with the long RYG Mle1921 fuze for better anti-personal efficiency. This long fuze explains probably why there were only 6 armed shells in the B1bis and 6 longer emplacements for them in the ammunition racks.

The 75mm HE shells are able to destroy the armored cars, Panzer I and Panzer II and are very efficient at short range against the tracks and lower parts of the heavier tanks. The HE shell has a penetration of 17mm/30° even at 800m.

Accuracy of the 75mm SA35 gun :
10 shots at 400m : HxL = 30cm x 28cm

From: viewtopic.php?t=117605

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Mobius
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#5

Post by Mobius » 12 Dec 2019, 17:10

Brady wrote:
12 Dec 2019, 04:06
Found this:

75mm SA35 L/17.1
Renault B1 and B1bis hull gun
Theoretical rate of fire : 15 rpm (in a B1bis tank, RoF will be about 6 rpm with APHE and the 6 first HE shells, but 2-4 rpm probably with following HE shells, time to put the fuzes on the shells.)
Telescopic sight : two L.710 sights for the 75mm SA35 gun forming prismatic binocular sights (each sight with 3.5x magnification, field of view 11.15° and range ladders, adjustable drum up to 1600m for the HE shells and 1560m for the APHE shells).
Practical AT range : 800-1000m

Ammunition :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 475 m/s
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
The APHE shell is intended to detonate once the armor has been penetrated. Because of the necessity for a hard point to APHE shells, the fuze is fitted into the base of the projectile. This fuze acts through inertia. As the shell passes up the barrel, either the shock of firing or the rapid rotation removes a safety device and arms the fuze. This fuze contains roughly a weight held by a spring. When the shell hits something hard, momentum throws the weight forward so it strikes the firing element of the fuze and thereby ignites the HE filler of the APHE shell.

From: viewtopic.php?t=117605
I got some of my info from that thread. But, it is a little misleading. Here is a source of the above data.
There is no way a little 17.1 caliber length howitzer is going to throw a shell at 500 m/s.
French 75mm.jpg
French 75mm.jpg (109.94 KiB) Viewed 1872 times
75aphe.jpg
75aphe.jpg (73.83 KiB) Viewed 1872 times
Last edited by Mobius on 12 Dec 2019, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.

Brady
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#6

Post by Brady » 12 Dec 2019, 17:17

So what he is referring to above is that the same ammunition was fired in those different guns including the gun in the Char ?

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Mobius
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Re: Char B 75mm AP rounds

#7

Post by Mobius » 12 Dec 2019, 17:29

I don't know. Maybe Christian or Miles can find what the German data on the SA 35 was.
The 75mm Model 1897 had a MV of 500 m/s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_75_modèle_1897

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